A World Where Being "Gay" Is The Norm

Until we have equal rights, something that we are in many ways still far from achieving, equal rights movements are exactly what we need. You can't say that the people leading the charges shouldn't be. The people sitting quietly on the sidelines aren't going to effect change.

Its a rather loft idea to say that we can make changes just by showing others we are good people. While ideally the world should work like this, it doesn't. It isn't the local friendly gays who are out there proving to people how good they are and causing change. It is the loud people standing up for their rights. We are finally seeing real change in this country as legalized gay marriage is finally sweeping through the states. But for heavens sake, who in the world should ever have the right to say who I marry. The fact that we even have to see this battle waged is a human rights violation. The fact that anyone can even dream of telling me that I can't marry a woman, man, or 6 men, if I should so choose to do so, is a human rights violation. Everyone in this world should be free to live life how they want to if it is done in a way that isn't itself violating the rights of someone else. What happens between consenting adults is between consenting adults. But again, the world just isn't that fair. So we need human rights movements.

You can say that civil rights has gone to far. That we have crossed a line of politicize correctness. I hear people say affirmative action does as much harm as good. The truth is it would be fantastic if we didn't need all these rules to guide us and everyone just did the right thing. The problem is that this isn't how the world works. We can't just say that it is over and be done with it. It isn't over.

We have taken huge steps forward, but our country still suffers from the effects of segregation. While the truth of the matter is that anyone can become anything they want to in our country if they put in the right amount of effort, the fact remains that there are a lot of people who have to work a hell of a lot harder to do so because of where they are starting from. There was a time in our history when we forced people into ghettos, reservations, ect.. We shoved entire cultures into the areas that no one else wanted. Now we have 'equal rights' and people can live wherever they want, but that doesn't mean that their ancestors didn't have to start from nothing. We still have a great amount of segregation. I graduated from a middle/upper class area school with 200 some odd seniors. There were, maybe, 20-30 black/latino/ generally non white students. While 20 minutes away is a similarly sized lower income school that has a lower graduation rate and the white population is the minority. You can't tell me segregation isn't still a problem. And I don't live in some small southern town. I live in a large 450,000+ population Midwestern city.

You can say we should just do what is right and we shouldn't have all these rules telling us how to do things. I wish you were right. It breaks my heart that you aren't. Until the day when this is true, we need loud and pushy people out front screaming and yelling about what we should be doing. Its the only way change has ever come to pass.

This is it, in a nutshell. Homo or hetero, it shouldn't make a damned bit of difference how you behave towards another human being. Who you take to the bedroom is no business of mine, as long as you're not asking me to join in. The problem comes, at least from my perspective, when you start shoving it in people's faces and "forcing" them to accept it.
-At my old copy center job, I worked with a guy who was openly gay (and his partner, come to that, they both worked there). Not flamboyantly so, just out of the closet. He was still a pretty awesome dude, easy to talk to, cracked one of the best Ace of Base jokes I've ever born witness to*, and I never once felt uncomfortable in his presence.
-On the other end of the scale, Johnny Weir. Let me be perfectly clear: it's not sexual orientation that bothers me, it's in-your-face flamboyancy. The whole gay pride "I'm here and I'm queer" sequins and rainbows thing is, quite frankly, counterproductive. I would not want to spend ten minutes in the presence of someone like that, because I find the whole thing very cringe-worthy and uncomfortable. Creating a "culture" of it, with the implication that such is necessary to be accepted by society, is actually driving the wedge further in.

Bottom line, homosexuals are just people, ordinary folk with different tastes. Black, White, Hispanic or Asian, male or female, anyone can be gay, and there's nothing wrong with that. But then, I suppose I'm not the target for this kind of video anyway. All I can say is, you won't change anyone's mind trying to force the issue, that way only breeds resentment.

*So a customer walks in one day and asks if we make business cards.
I explain that yes, they're made right in store from the (then-new) kiosk. He glances up above the counter, to the banner hanging overhead explaining just that and says, "Oh yeah, I saw the sign."
My friend standing nearby chimes in, poker-face straight, "Did it open up your eyes?"
It was all I could do not to completely lose it in front of the guy.

Once, I was at a restaurant, and a large group (at least 1/16th of the people there) were playing drinking games, and I had to shout for my mom to hear me across the table. Although, I didn't ask them to quiet down (they were VERRRY drunk), they were white, and if they were African, Asian, Hispanic, or otherwise, I still would've felt the same (rather annoyed) and that is just a reaction to noise. Unless you were angry for being a minority, even though it isn't your job, the people should at least show a little courtesy, but once again... drinking games make everybody, well, less courteous

*don't judge my rant and straying from subject. I'm tired.

Yes, the quiet people that aren't doing anything aren't the ones causing change. But they are the ones whose "image" is the best for causing change. The loud gays are only presenting one side to the issue, theirs. Unfortunately, this tends to be rather in your face, and makes people uncomfortable in the same way that someone "protesting" against gays does to gays. This is an issue with all movements. Movements have now turned into demand-based organizations. Rather than projecting understanding and true equality, it is a "we want this, and we want this, and it needs to happen now." If we look back to the incredibly successful civil rights movement of the late 50s, early 60s, there are two distinctive groups that were fighting the good fight, but with different weapons. You have MLK (great leader, questionable person) and Malcom X as two leaders (Malcom wasn't necessarily as high up as MLK was, but that doesn't matter). The MLK movement was not nearly as demand-based as it was love, understanding, and education based. Malcom X failed in getting anything done because he was a loud voice who was not willing to cause change via understanding, but rather by "annoyance" (let's forget about his questionable violence tactics). I believe that the current movements are accidentally mirroring the annoyance tactic, but it is (barely) working because it is much easier now to force people to listen to you. Current change is not the product of majority understanding, there is a large enough portion of "I am so damn sick of listening to you that you can have what you want" present that it will eventually breed a polarized population of resenting people. This is not how real change is made. Real change must both be legal and educational. Currently all that is being done is legal, with little education. There will, of course, be those who refuse to become educated on current matters. They will forgotten and eventually "die" out, as there numbers will be insignificant.

The friendly quiet gays aren't necessarily the ones who have to push the image of that we are all human inside. The loud gays can just as much try to educate the public on how much everyone has in common, but they aren't. They are just pushing one culture into our view, and ignoring their own people at the same time. Hypocrisy in this sense will only come back to bite in the future.

From what I have seen/read/studied, the root cause of the gay marriage issue is not in the term "gay", but in the term "marriage." It is generally historically accepted that marriage is a religious term. In the US church and state are supposed to remain separate, and when the government decided to start redefining what many people consider to be a religious term, that pinched many nerves. The issue of government "marriages" originates far longer ago, and was an issue from the beginning. Had they been termed "civil unions", we would likely not be having any issues with giving consenting adults of any nature the full legal rights that a heterosexual couple gets.

I completely agree with you on that point. Hell, if someone can name their dog as the main heir in their will, no one should even be able to deny a couple of any orientation/type/nature legal rights.

I agree with you on this one. But I see no clear/muddled solution to it at all. Cultures tend to group together, and this makes it even tougher to tackle. It is magnitudes easier to tackle an ideological problem than a physical problem. Segregation is mainly a physical problem in my opinion. If we can get and "uniform density" of all cultures, then fixing the ideological problem is very easy. The cultures will educate themselves just by being present.

I didn't read all the posts and I didn't watch the video, but from what I did read I think I can understand what this is about.
I think videos like this are absolutely not necessary. Sure, there might be some problems with people acting aggressively because people are gay, but the problem really isn't as big as some people think it is. Homosexuality is actually quide widely approved, and if not, it's not prosecuted, at least.
There might be people who try and ignore gay people, but physical bullying because of someones sexuality like shown in this video just doesn't really happen.
One might say "But look at the charts, there's so many violence against gays!", then I'll reply "Here are the charts for violence against straights." There isn't at all much more physical violence against gay people.
I don't think this video will do much good. It's supposed to shock people and make them feel sick, and it sure does, but it doesn't make things better.

Being gay is a sin. I can't prove it without getting religious. So if you want to hear why PM me I guess..

The problem isn't in the definition of marriage. The problem isn't in people not being allowed to be considered legal. The problem lies in the christian right who's only argument is "Its a sin!". Even if 'marriage' wasn't on the table these people would still be out there trying to force their beliefs on others and taking human rights away from people they deem immoral. Most people understand that the religious 'marriage' isn't what most people are after. It is the legal rights that come with it. But in our country 'marriage' is often the only way to truly have legal rights. The term marriage has become the term for civil union in our country. We stole it from our religious history, but even if we started calling it civil union - there would be people fighting against allowing it. The problem just isn't that simple. If the problem could have been solved by simply changing a term, I assure you it would have been done a long time ago.

I can tell you from first hand experience that the real bigotry is still thriving out there. I can tell you from first hand experience what it is like to be standing face to face with people holding bright yellow and orange signs telling you that you are immoral and have no worth. The most disturbing thing I've ever seen in my life, a child of no more than 6 or 7 years mimicking the hatred he has been taught. Seeing hatred in the eyes of someone who should still be innocent and happy.

We are still a country fighting against the very backwards views we were created with. We are a country who prides itself on freedom but continues to deny freedom to so many.

Just like in the civil rights movement, the laws have to come first. There needs to be protection for those who lack it. Education is slow and often takes generations to really be effective. But again, we can't just sit on the sidelines and just believe change will happen. MLKJr wasn't a quiet supporter of the civil rights movement. He was a leader for peaceful change, but not for quiet change. He was very vocal and very willing to cause problems to challenge the status quo. You can't confuse non-violent with quiet. The effective movements of the civil rights era were the ones that forced the issues into the faces of those who didn't want to acknowledge them. Large protests, sit ins, marches, speeches - they are peaceful - but they were large, powerful and effective because they grabbed attention. You can't have a quiet revolution. The world just doesn't work that way.

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The solution is simple and terribly complex. In one word the solution is education. Education. Education through school. Education through role models. We need a vast overhaul of our education system. When the poorest of our country receive the best education we can offer - this is when the world will change.

God bless you, darlin, for making my point.

I hope that you find peace in your faith as you enter the service. I hope it protects you. I also hope that it helps to open your eyes to the world, to compassion, as you grow up and see more of the world.

You'll find that when quiet people speak they speak not to fill the silence but because they feel that they have something to say and when they do they make it count.
Jus' a little off subject,

I'll be honest. I don't care if the person is Gay, Straight, Homo, or whatever the person's sexuality is... As long as they are nice people thats enough.

Also I got lots of Gay and Lesbian friends... And boy they are cool!
Also... Gays are awesome cuz... They know how to make Brunch! I love brunch.... Mmm... So tasty...
Anyhow... My mother wanted me to be gay, though my father aways said "Don't be a fag".

No wonder why I hate him so much...

I also believe (Thats part of one of my theories) that Love doesn't have gender. So if you love someone whoever is he/she is independen of his/her/yours sexuality, There's no problem in having a relashionship. Or if you don't want to have a relashionship be friends to that person.

So prepared for this after all the YouTube comment wars I get in...

I am straight and an Atheist and have no problem with people have religion or who they fancy. I'm not going to say that Atheism is the way because then I'd be as bad as the religious people who do the same. I don't care if they a religion see's it as a sin because they're following what they were told from years ago. It may be outdated and wrong today, but doesn't bother me. The thing that bothers me is when religion is used as an EXCUSE to attack someone because of their homosexuility. This includes physically and emotionally with things such as insults and harassment but also the "you're going to burn in hell fire for like being gay". I also hate who being homosexual is seen as a diease or illness which can be caused. Me and SoulPunisher have both had an encountering with a user on YouTube (Sinisable or something), who goes around YouTube videos, makes a reference to the video and then says how he was "cured". An example is on Echosmiths - Coolkids video he posted something like:
"I wish I could have been a coolkid, but I was gay. I am now cured of it because the Lord cured me".
It's typically a lot longer and a load of insult towards someone being homosexual.

I wasn't going to get involved in this until I read this post.

You are entitled to your own opinion. You can believe what you want. But what you can't do, is just come out and say that being gay is wrong

In my opinion, saying that being gay is wrong, is on the same level as saying that being female makes you inferior. It is a completely false statement.

I realise that all you said was that being gay is a sin, and this is what you believe and you did not explicitly put down gay people, but you came here, with all the authority in the world, and said that being gay is a sin. I would like you to explain to me, why it is a sin, when people do not choose to be gay, when homosexuality has been observed in other animals, and when it is none of your business.

I don't think you can prove that, religiously (to prove something with religion doesn't seem appropriate any way) or not, on the forums or in a PM.
Prove requires evidence. Books and old stories do not qualify as evidence.

Because Religion. Let's just not even go there.

Heh. Didn't mean to offend anyone...

What I mean is I believe in a faith. This faith has a good reason why people shouldn't be gay. But that doesn't mean I think gay people are any less of a person. If I were to meet a gay person I wouldn't treat them any different. I don't discriminate or bully them. I took a fist for a gay person a couple weeks back because he was trying to kiss another dude.

What does "to take a fist" mean?

Someone was punching him. I stopped the fight and got hit.

Everyone's opinions and beliefs here are valid and to their point of view, the truth.
We are people and we are together and in a way we all think alike. We all have compassion, bravery, intelligence, truth in us and it is our choice how we use it. We could argue and fight or we could state out opinions and support one another. I'm happy to see that this is what is happening here and its good that we all are alike in the way that we care.

... what did you think it meant?

Roughly the same as marshmallow explained. I wasn't too sure though, I thought he maybe meant marshmallow punched the guy.