[POLL] chickeneer fixes the economy thread

I think enraged are fairly easy to cheese at Diff 5. The only issue is knowing what you're getting into. At the end of 1.17 (I think) I spent several hours hunting enraged mobs at Diff 7 in the overworld, and I was never in danger of dieing. The only annoying one has been the ghast, that starts floating up and gets out of bow range.
For new players would maybe be good to have them off by default, but in general I would not nerf them.
As an alternative, have them nerfed vs new players only (say, account less than 30 days old).

I have personally seen quite a few new players quit over the enraged and special boss mobs. I think it should be off as a default and as a player gets used to the server and beef up their gear they can choose to turn on the enraged / boss's. I don't think they are too strong. The default 5 seems fine. I hear people complain of the fire puppies, but like all mobs once you learn how to deal with them, they aren't that bad but again this isn't about that mob but enraged in general.

More importantly I am pleased to see this post as this builds confidence in players that their concerns are being heard and looked at. Thanks for all your work!

They should improve economy, i think. We need something unique- which is same as my excat idea.
Non-farmable item server should buy to improve economy- just like communist state, where government buy from any place which buy it. It may encourage player to play emc more.
Batering should be balanced. Everyone deverse same chance to gain cash, there's some ppl like explorer who doesnt like their income affected. We should balance these.
Also, i'm enjoyed about collect items, so these promos may valuable and wroth to have it.
And last, diff 5 is fine. You just learn how to deal with it.

On the topic of the server buying non farmable items, I am 100% onboard with this, and I'd add that the possibility of bringing back the Empire shop should be looked into. I'm not entirely certain on that last point, but I have heard from a number of people over the years that it could help the economy. Something to think about.

Personally I'd say leave bartering alone. The price of items has always changed between updates as items become renewable and easier to farm, for example, quartz was already dropping in price since 1.14 when villager trading was updated. If you change it, you're setting the precedent that the economy is more important than the vanilla game, and it opens the door to interferring with other aspects of gameplay should they be deemed 'detrimental' to the economy.

With regard to collectible items, I think this would be a great rupee sink for more advanced players, and there are actually ways to one up current tools, for instance making a mineral mincer style tool always available to purchase so that players have some way to instant mine deepslate.

Enraged question:

I think it would make for a better initial experience if the enraged and boss flags were off. I've seen a few new players quit after complaining in chat about a boss on fire. Maybe have a message on screen, like the build mode off msg, to let the player know there are more features if they are ready for them.

Should the server buy certain blocks?

This is a good idea as long as the server buys only the most readily available items such as dirt and cobblestone. Other less common items like sand and gravel, etc. would reduce sales at shops. Sales of these items are my primary source of income at the moment.

I believe setting up a shop is the best way to earn rupees. It takes time and thought to determine the prices but once that is found there can be a steady low value income that can easily exceed the daily voting amount.

The one thing the server could do to help me is to provide an in game method of advertising my shop.
I was thinking the /shop command could bring up a gui that lists the reses on that smp that has the shop flag set. If each shop can get a method of creating a short shop message the gui could list that along with the shop name and address. Maybe have it be a link to tp to that shop. There could also be a way to report the listed shop as being derelict or not even a shop. A method of hopping to or scanning other smps would also be helpful but listing the shops on one smp at a time will avoid clutter.

I see your point and I agree. I did not think about that.
I would then be of the opinion that off by default should be the preferred solution.

Disclaimer: I rarely take part in economy type things on EMC, I do however pay attention to chat and seeing new players confused on how to make rupees is pretty common, giving an option to sell something to EMC sounds like a very good solution. The concerns of shop owners: if you need stock for your shop, actively advertising your shop as buying these base items for MORE than the server does is likely to add some price competitiveness.

Bartering:
The best solution I can think of for this is changing bartering on EMC so that piglins take Raw Gold instead of gold ingots, This would allow for the trading rates to stay the same as they are now but also make bartering as a whole less of just printing items from a gold farm. additionally, this wouldn't make gold farms people already have totally useless, they would still be able to get just as much gold from them and use it for beacons or building etc

+1 to raw gold barters instead of ingots. Nice balance.

I’ve seen new peeps in chat quit after coming across enraged/mini boss. So, I’m all for changing the default setting to off.

+1 to raw gold barters. I like that idea.

-1 to the raw gold for bartering, bartering won’t really be viable with such a limited supply of gold. We need to think of other ways to fix the economy rather than just restricting vanilla mechanics.

we need to unpotato the server economy.. thats a given, im just unsure what the best way to do that.

I feel like the economy problem is two-part, and both issues seem to be mostly unaddressable. I know that floor pricing, buy back options through shopworld, and some other great ideas on here would create better options for peeps to earn rupees besides voting (and I'm all for finding other ways besides voting fyi), but these solutions don't address the root issue that I perceive:

1.) Minecraft makes items farmable which crashes their market.
2.) EMC economy drops as player count stays low. I played in the hey day when we were thriving. Servers were crushing numbers in player counts. Now, the buyers market is small even with new players. You can only sell so much sand when only 30-40 people are on any given day. I love this server because of the people and the play style. Problem is, I don't see management here anymore and things feel...neglected socially. We have great staff and moderators, but it's nothing like things were several years ago. The dedication is missing. It's palpable. You need more players. Fixing enraged and opening up more rupees through economy changes won't be enough in my opinion.

Please don't take this as a slam, because it's not. But Aikar and Kryssys presence, along with nearly daily social activities by other mods and staff were the elements driving the success of this server. We need these elements back (not necessarily same peeps obvs) to create a fan base again. I'm a fan of EMC, but I don't think new players we get here are coming because it's EMC. They're coming because it's a server to play on, which just makes us another disposable place to play like everywhere else.

**Edited to note that I like the idea of some changes, but what's the ultimate goal? Create an economy for low player count server pop? This just continues the problems that I personally feel are present. Kinda like using a bandaid for a 6" cut. Too little too late.**

For the economy side of things, I think that the way it is solved in Path of Exile can offer some good ideas.

In that game, the devs seriously limited inflation by designing currency to have also a secondary function, so that the players would remove some currency from the economy with this secondary functionality.

Like if rupees could be used instead of lapis in enchanting setups.

Of course here we are modding an existing game, rather than designing one from scratch, but I think that if rupees could be "consumed" somehow (and not only by buying items at the shopworld), the inflation would abate and the prices could go up again.

my 0.02€

What would you qualify as viable? I don't think anyone wants to make bartering pointless
I had a few other ideas for bartering balance but the raw gold one seemed like the best of both worlds
Alt ideas:

• Remove gold nuggets from zombie piglin drop tables or reduce the drop chance quite a bit
• Disable crafting nuggets into ingots
• Trade with Ore

This is my point about a bigger issue. Changing the vote rupee amount, adjusting donor bonuses, offering a buyback system (which technically takes rupees out of the economy because buying from shop world and not other players despite adding in rupees), these will need continuous change to adjust to dropping player count. Ensuring players have rupees won't keep them here in the long run or increase server pop.

Need to have a serious conversation about whether effort will be made to create a massive social community again or not. I feel efforts for that have gone by the wayside. EMC is a brand. Brand awareness and engagement would fix the economy. More people mean more shops. More shops means more spending because more demand. I'd keep voting bonus as a supplement honestly. When peeps choose our server, it should be because it's EMC, a social server that let's you play your way. I feel like they just randomly pick up out of the blue now. That means brand awareness is nada. Maybe consider creating ambassador roles. Not a mod, just someone that is committed to engaging with new players. Not everyone can do that or has the time to do so, but having a few players who don't mind operating in that department may help the brand.

I think we should get back to more variety in events too. I'm trying to help out with that. I only have time for one a month though. But, we used to have skyblock, mob arena (kinda still do), spleef, pvp events, and more. Now it's just firefloor with an occasional harvest day and mob arena. The holiday stuff is always appreciated, but that's infrequent. You could be streaming livelier events and peeps will join knowing these occur regularly and not get bummed when there's nothing to do when they show up (which happens often).

I think the points I agree with have been already put out there however one of them has not been suggested I don't think.

1 - More Players need to be active in the economy
2 - More Items need to be taken out of the economy
3 - Items need to be harder to acquire

Not entirely sure the best way to do any of the but I think that we need to make economy more enticing and more custom items a long with maybe custom builds that generate in the wild