[DEBATE] Presidential Election - 2016 (closing Nov 22)

It's tough to admit, but it looks like Trump and Hillary are our nominees at this point. Unfortunately.
However I would like to point this out.




These are maps of various people's political ideologies. You see various historical figures, our candidates this year, and mine for reference. This is based on the British standard. (All images from www.politicalcompass.org)

This post is intended to show people how insanely far right America's view of moderate is compared to Britian, a country which has similar economic leanings to most of the rest of the world's first world countries. Heck, in England, Bernie would be considered moderate!

I encourage everyone here to go to your state primary/caucus and actually vote/participate in caucusing. Because I don't think either of our projected nominees are suited to be good presidents.

Ted Cruz is such a liar. I don't want a liar in office. Trump is just disgusting. Sanders' ideas I like, but where are we getting the money for that? Clinton is the least of the four evils.

There were rumors going around that former Mayor Michael Bloomberg will run as an independent. If that's true... #Bloomberg4Prez

What are you talking about? Bernie's entire campaign is essentially REMOVING 'corporate control' over people.

And no, who becomes the next president is an extremely important matter. The decisions of the POTUS have ripple effects around the whole world. This is an extreme comparison, but what if the Nazi party had never won German elections in the thirties? Would WWII have happened? Would our economy have been in ruins for another three decades? Would we have developed nuclear capabilities? Would the Cold War have happened? If the Cold War didn't happen, would Raegan have stated a spending spree to outspend the USSR, harming the US economy in the process? I mean this all theoretically came out of one election in Germany, which wasn't even a global superpower. If John McCain was president now, what would have happened with the economy? Would Iran have nuclear capabilities? Would we be at war with Russia? I'm being a little dramatic, but you see my point.

Define "bad guys" please.

Surely anyone who has followed this election can agree that it has been anything but normal. I feel most people only see what is on the surface, and a lot of them only care to believe in things they can see. Personally, I feel there is much more at play here than meets the eye. No, not transformers, but actually working in those that have been transformed through the renewing of their minds with the Word of God. Whether you are willing to admit that the United States was founded on Biblical principles or not does not change the fact that the USA has been the single best thing to happen to Christianity since Jesus left earth. What this nation stands for that the outsiders attempt to dilute by twisting "separation of church and state" to justify their interpretation that we do not need God will not prevail. It is embossed on our currency for all to see...In God We Trust, and this is what keeps the States United.

The "Silent Majority" of this country are Bible believing Christians, and the time has come for them to re-emerge and help put order back into the chaos that this world is becoming. Many believe that the world must all but annihilate itself in a cesspool of sin before "He" will return, but I read that "He" is returning for a lamb without spot or wrinkle, and before that occurs the whole earth would hear the good news of the gospel. It may be hard to believe, but some parts of the world have still not heard of the Bible and it's message.

I believe a revival like none other will sweep across this nation, and it will return to it's former glory, and it will shine like a light set on a hill for the whole world to see. How did America change they will ask? It will spread like wildfire across the globe. It will be known to all that the country that teetered on disaster returned to her first Love, and is a beacon for all to follow.

Freedom to do whatever you want is a gift of Love. Whether you acknowledge this as a Gift from above or from the soldier who laid down his life and paid for it with blood, it comes from Love. One must love their family, their fellow man, and their country to do such an honorable thing. To protect what is theirs, to protect their family and friends, to defend their country, to uphold the laws that keep chaos at bay with the structure of character.

It says in the Bible that "He" is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. So if "He" used prophecy then, in the yesterday column of days past, then "He" will use it today, and tomorrow too. It also says that "He" will not do anything without revealing it to "His" prophets first. I want to share an excerpt from a prophecy given by Kim Clement on April 4th 2007.

"I am God and you have called to Me, and many from this Nation have said "enough, enough of religion, enough, enough of dead speech." The Spirit of God said, this is a moment of resurrection. For the Spirit of God says, honor Me with your praise and acceptance of this that I say to you. This that shall take place shall be the most unusual thing, a transfiguration, a going into the marketplace if you wish, into the news media. Where Time Magazine will have no choice but to say what I want them to say. Newsweek, what I want to say. The View, what I want to say. Trump shall become a trumpet, says the Lord! I will raise up the Trump to become a trumpet and Bill Gates to open up the gate of a financial realm for the Church, says the Spirit of the Living God!

In 1967 there was a great revolution, but God said, the revolution that you are going to experience starting in 2007 is going to be greater than anything that's ever happened."

In that excerpt we see the mention of the most unusual thing, which I feel could refer to such an unusual election. And while Kim interpreted this to transpire in 2007 as cited above, I believe he may have missed it by 10 years, and it is indeed a revolution that will occur in 2017 with a President Trump. I think the plausibility of such would be much greater with Trump in office than any other, but even if that is not the outcome, I still believe the prophecy could be relevant, and still echo true regardless because whether Trump wins or not, it could definitely be said that he trumpeted the cause. Another thing to consider is that the great revolution that Kim mentions in 1967, would actually be 50 years from 2017, and God does many things in cycles of 50, hence the Jubilee year.

Regardless if you agree with this or not, I just wanted to offer my opinion and hopefully insight into what I feel is really at play here behind the scenes. At the end of the day, the government will still fall short of solving the problems faced by this world that have clearly been bestowed upon the shoulders of the Church. Regardless of what candidate you support, I think we should all resolve to come together as Americans, be proud of our Heritage, and find direction from the wisdom of our fore-fathers.

Many of you have stated that you must pick the lesser of the evils in this election.

While he may not be able to deliver on all of his campaign promises, who ever has? The media does all it can to discredit Trump as the political machine works feverishly to keep a grasp on the purse-strings of our nation. Trump may not be perfect, but only "One" has been. I feel he will do what he can because he has put his reputation on the line, and at the end of the day, Trump truly cares about that. He wants to be able to say he did what he said he would do. His mindset is Win, and the United States needs a Winning Mindset again.

Let's Make America Great Again

I am a devout Catholic and can sort of understand where you're coming from, but I disagree with the way you tied Christianity in. I think that in recent years, America has given our faith a bad name. It's not the majority that hurts our reputation, it's extremist groups like westboro baptist church. The KKK was built on Protestantism. I don't believe Donald Trump would be a good addition to that, seeing the violent mindset a lot of his supporters have. As a Christian, I don't believe in water boarding, the death penalty, or torture. These are all taught against in the bible. The bible also teaches that the end of the world will come when church and state become combined. I'm not an expert, but from the time I've spent studying the bible and Jesus' teachings, I would like to point out that Jesus believed ultimately in charity, tolerance, nonviolence, equality, and free will.

Donald Trump does not (publicly) support programs to benefit the poor.
He wants to ban all Muslims from coming here.
He wants to deport illegal immigrants.
He wants to fight a war in Syria and against ISIS that is not just by the standards of the Catholic Church.
He does not support the feminist movement, protection against discrimination for Gays, racial equality.
He believes in a more socially authoritarian style of government that is very overbearing and gives you many limitations.

This is why I support Bernie Sanders.
He supports more extensive social security programs and benefits to the poor.
He wants to allow more people into the US.
He supports paths to citizenship for undocumented immigrants.
He does not want ground troops in the Middle East.
He wants to ensure absolute equality for all races, LGBT Americans, and women.
He believes in a government that owes its citizens a lot of rights and protections against a possibly abusive government.
(He also advocates a separation of church and state.)

Just some food for thought.

It's hard for me to refrain from this when I have 3 minutes till I have to leave for school!

Here's the issue. Hillary Clinton has lied about most of her ideas, Sanders has a great idea of socialism but how will this happen when a portion of America isn't paying their taxes, Trump must I say any more, Cruz I like for his belief preferences but that's a bias on my part. If I could vote I'd vote for Cruz as it looks like the idea of Rubio will join him.

Bloomberg said the other day he wasn't going to run because he'd take too many votes from the Democrats and Trump would win.

Makes a lot of sense. Bloomberg for 2020?

More likely it'll be whoever wins this election.

What these politicians say is of no consequence but that of how those that might believe them perceive them. Since over half of Americans don't believe what any of them say I would argue that it's a moot point what Sanders is saying. Especially when he has been a senator for DECADES and despite his rhetoric he supports corporate bailouts of billions of dollars and wars waged on obvious lies.

Hitler and the Nazi party coming into power in a country that was wrecked by war and choked by sanctions and desperate just to eat is a very far fetched comparison. Especially since Hitler wasn't a president and Germany wasn't a fiat republic. All of our presidents have acted of the same accord when it comes to our military, our foreign policy and the limited policing powers they hold to keep the legislative and judicial branches in check. To expect that sanders, a man that has been embedded in that system for longer than most people here have been alive, would somehow bring a change to that is well.. absurd.

Edit: the only reason I believe with conviction he will win is because his campaign most closely mimics that of our previous presidents: obama, bush, Clinton and Reagan all said and did the same crap before they became president. Acted as the less extreme candidate, catered to the college vote and seemed able to cross party lines in their proposals. That last part is a little harder for a Democrat senator as a lifelong profession to pull off but again, it's just rhetoric anyways.

Second edit: disregard all. You were the one that parotted that American candidates are far right. Which is hilarious on any level. Every single one of the candidates that are running (other than maybe Cruz and rand before he dropped out) are far more left than right. Ironically sanders and his "socialism" (his ideas as professed do not mimic that of socialism at all) is further right than clinton, trump or Rubio. Trump, Clinton and Rubio want to use governmental powers in unprecedented ways. That's not a right leaning sentiment. That's a left leaning ideology.

I honestly feel like the Republicans lost their best chance at the presidency when Rubio dropped out. He was the most moderate Republican in the race, as well as being pretty charismatic. I think we're looking at another Democratic president for the next 8 years.

Joshua 7:24-26

24 Then Joshua, together with all Israel, took Achan son of Zerah, the silver, the robe, the gold bar, his sons and daughters, his cattle, donkeys and sheep, his tent and all that he had, to the Valley of Achor. 25 Joshua said, “Why have you brought this trouble on us? The Lord will bring trouble on you today.”
Then all Israel stoned him, and after they had stoned the rest, they burned them. 26 Over Achan they heaped up a large pile of rocks, which remains to this day. Then the Lord turned from his fierce anger. Therefore that place has been called the Valley of Achor[f] ever since.

It would appear to me that God believes in capital punishment, and technically it takes it a few steps further to include his family and belongings.

As Abraham Lincoln once stated "Intelligence, patriotism, Christianity, and a firm reliance on Him who has never yet forsaken this favored land are still competent to adjust in the best way all our present difficulty."seems to fit nicely in today's scenario too. And wasn't He who was responsible for the Emancipation Proclamation? Who was also brought up in a "Protestant" home. All sorts of good and bad examples can be derived from either side of the aisle in regards to Catholics and Protestants, but that was not my point.

My point was we should rely on our faith regardless our view of politics.

And, in regards to what you did say about Donald Trump...

Donald Trump does not (publicly) support programs to benefit the poor.

- Even if this is true, can you truly say any candidate has given more to charity?

He wants to ban all Muslims from coming here.

- Taken out of context to make a point. A temporary ban is not a bad idea, and that is what he is suggesting, only until we get better measures in place to vet those entering our country.

He wants to deport illegal immigrants.

- And? What about "Illegal" is hard here?

He wants to fight a war in Syria and against ISIS that is not just by the standards of the Catholic Church.

- Okay, so the separation of Church and State is only useful in some instances, but if the Catholic Church deems a fight / war not just, then by all means we must reconsider. I wonder how many Catholic churches ISIS has leveled? Or was it only the Protestants that dared to go into Iraq?

He does not support the feminist movement, protection against discrimination for Gays, racial equality.

- I have not seen proof of this anywhere. What I am sure that may have ruffled some feathers was his stance on limiting welfare programs to only those who really need them. Some people believe that having babies is the path to financial success. Why should a president support a movement? I have never heard that he is against it? I suppose if he isn't for it, he is against it? And I am sorry, but I get tired of the LGBT crying foul as if they need special treatment. I choose not to live that way, but if that is what you want to do, then you should be able to do so. However, pointing out the fact that one is this way is indifferent to me. One should be viewed as a Human on the planet earth, and that alone, not the color of his / her skin or preference should merit any difference of opinion in weighing matters of Law and Justice. Our society has gotten so overrun with minority groups that the discrimination these days is on the remaining few that cannot find a way to fit in a minority.

He believes in a more socially authoritarian style of government that is very overbearing and gives you many limitations.

- So we should just throw caution to the wind, take down all speed limit signs, submit to the UN council, and continue to flood our country with every known religion, race and identity on the planet to the point that the different flavors have flushed all the cherry kool-aid out of the pitcher and it is only a putrid concoction left? Totally diluted and supposedly equal. It wasn't right that America was cherry flavored, because not everyone likes cherry flavored kool-aid, many preferred grape, or orange, or lime so we keep pouring in all the different flavors into the pitcher trying to achieve a balance when none of it mixed as such is worth consuming.

Yes, we need more authority in America. We need authority that is respected, not viewed as the enemy.

And now a few of the supposed Bernie Pro's

He supports more extensive social security programs and benefits to the poor.

- The ultimate charge card, free college for everyone that stems from the excess taxation you mentioned above that he supports.

He wants to allow more people into the US.

- As mentioned above, flood it till there is no indication of what it was.

He supports paths to citizenship for undocumented immigrants.

- Listed as if Donald Trump does not, which he does. I mean Donald Trump's wife is an immigrant that followed the proper "LEGAL" channels to citizenship.

He does not want ground troops in the Middle East.

The only indication that I recollect of Trump suggesting ground troops would be in the brief period that it would take to get the oil out of Iraq and then leave.

He wants to ensure absolute equality for all races, LGBT Americans, and women.

- Doesn't the Constitution already do this? Why must we keep making niche groups of people by which to isolate and make them feel inferior if they are not viewed as equal with others, yet they themselves strive to point out how they are not equal / the same? If they were not to bark so much about it and move on, heh...(Moveon.org) then they could assimilate in society better. I once had a cousin who's husband had lost his left arm from just below the elbow. Now many people in this day and age would think, well maybe he should have started a club for all people who had missing left hands and had to go through life with only one hand. I am not saying that it is not hard for people with disabilities, and yes, we should help them. But he did not go out of his way to look for special treatment. He raised hogs, built farm houses, worked on his truck and tractor, painted buildings, the guy did many things I would be proud to do myself because he was a hard worker. The idea that he was missing a hand did not deter him from doing normal stuff. I may be wrong, but if I had a missing limb, or was blind, or deaf, or had some other disability, I would strive to do my best to minimize my dependence on others. Yes, there is going to be a given amount of assistance, but the notion that America has today is bleep it, the world owes me, I am such and such. And they just keep going in circles in a pity party drawing more attention to an issue that most likely wouldn't be such an issue if they would just drop it.

He believes in a government that owes its citizens a lot of rights and protections against a possibly abusive government.

- Somewhat touched on in previous response, but what I see distinctly about this comment is that the government "owes" us. I think it is funny that it is suggested the path to limit government is with more government.

One last thought in regards to some of the things you said that "Jesus believed ultimately in charity, tolerance, nonviolence, equality, and free will".

Charity - Yes

Tolerance - Not so much. He did not tolerate the salesmen in the Temple and threw them out.

Non-Violence - As listed above found in John 2:15... So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

He believed in doing what was right and Just.

Equality -I believe so

Free will - This tends to be a deep subject for me that pivots on the idea that He knew the end from the beginning. I won't write another book on this one.

We may not see eye to eye on this one, but it is cool that we live in a free land in which to discuss such ideas.

God Bless, and have a good day.

What do you think each candidate can bring to the country? I think Trump will end domestic terrorism

What do you like/dislike most about Donald Trump? that he going to build a wall

What do you like/dislike most about Hillary Clinton? she killed American military and ben ghazi

Have you been keeping up with Political news? yes!

What would you like to see happen to improve the United States? nuke the middle east

U may begin criticizing me now

HI just wanted to make this show on this thread again....Because it needs to be! nice job man!

I think it is funny you said that, I suggested this as a senator in our mock government class way back in 1990 when we first entered into war in the middle east (Desert Storm). It may not be the politically correct thing to do, but it sure worked in Japan. Now look at them, they have the largest city in the world (Tokyo).

true but ever day we are in the middle east 7 Americans die (my uncle included) I hate them all they deserve a nuke right down the throat (that might be a little extreme)

I am sorry to hear that. I was, however, agreeing with your prior post. But as hard as it may seem, we must find a way to see beyond the veil of the flesh, and with His help love the person(s), but hate their actions / deeds. To get in a situation where we hate others regardless of the reason, is to fall victim to the devil's schemes to pit us against each other. Divide and conquer scenario?

This passage comes to mind:

Ephesians 6:10-17

10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

In verse 12 we find our true enemies. Those who are working overtime plotting and scheming in an effort to put yet another president in office that would undermine the values our country was founded on.

Seek Ye First the Kingdom of God, Pray and ask His guidance on how to vote, and ultimately - Vote.

Or, or, OR. Hear me out here. We could NOT risk an escalation to a global thermonuclear war, killing hundreds of millions of innocent people, and potentially cause the death and destruction of a land that has been around since before mankind could read and write.

Just a thought, tho.

I don't think this can really be interpreted as... you must vote... could it?

I think it pretty clearly states our struggle is against the rulers, the authorities and the powers of this dark world. IF anything its saying down with the system. Which is pretty much exactly what Jesus was doing and why he was killed.

WWJD- not vote and... take care of the people around him instead of watching the clowns on the boob tube demanding your attention lest the boogey man (pick your poison, don't like mexicans? muslims? capitalists? communists? police? hippies? patriots? jews? the religious sort?) comes to get you and take you away. You can't look away or they will get ye.

oh oh oh it does say to use faith, peace, righteousness, the gospel and spirit though. no where do i see the vote?