I am being manipulated.

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by 72Volt, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. Hi, everyone.

    Since August of last year, I have known a girl named Caitlin.
    Between September and some time around February, we were in a relationship-type thing.
    I screwed it up, I sort of objectified her and unintentionally forced her into changing for me, which affected her self-esteem badly.
    I won't go into the details, it's far too weird.
    Between February and now, we have still been seeing each other as often as we did before. It was essentially a friendship, in the form of a suspension of the relationship.
    She intended to have me improve so we could be in a relationship type thing again.
    I understand why, her grandfather's dog died around the time we went into the relationship.
    That dog meant a whole lot to her, she doesn't have a lot of friends and she's always loved dogs. She is still quite distraught about it.
    So as a result, she sort of needs me and hopes I'll change.
    However, efforts to make me change are usually thwarted by my failure to pay the correct attention to her or whatever, and me unintentionally annoying her.

    My birthday is in around 8 days.
    Last week, she bought me a few books as a present.
    I love books.
    I am rarely able to get good books, she got me a couple by Richard Dawkins and one other which was a surprise.
    Today, I pushed her over the edge.
    She has a tendency to argue her self-loathing to me, that she's apparently fat/ugly/unloved.
    So I did what I normally did and argued against her, on the basis that people are beautiful regardless of shape and size.
    In doing this, I invoked themes related to the initial end of the relationship.

    My arguing pushed her over the edge.
    She is threatening to burn, dump or otherwise dispose of all the books she got me.
    Unless I genuinely improve.
    I've seen little in any relationship with her for months.
    I feel awful, but it's how I feel.
    I know I'm self centred.
    I want to change.
    But I can't. It's my nature.
    The books mean a lot to me.
    Books are a much needed escape from the real world, along with Minecraft and generally using my computer.
    I am absolutely distraught, and she says it may take months before she decides to give the books to me, because she's withholding them.
    I am extremely stressed, and I have no-one else to tell this to.

    Thanks for reading, I'm sort of pressed for time.
  2. You should never change because you have to, rather because it should be for yourself! And it can't be rushed or forced by others, it's a natural process everyone goes through. It may be easier to see things from the outside
  3. Your not being manipulated into believing anything as far as I read. She does care for you since she does want you in her life but it seems as though, there are certain attributes about you that don't quite fit her ideal picture of you. I'd listen to what spiffey said, just be yourself and see how it goes from there.
    Spiffiey likes this.
  4. Sounds like she just wants re-assurance ... If she ever says she thinks she is fat/ugly/unloved etc again... don't say people are beautiful regardless of shape and size... to me that comes off as the same as almost saying 'yes you are' ... so she probably thought of it slightly offensive...

    Instead, say it like 'I think you are beautiful - I will love you no matter what' ... that comes off stronger and more meaningful.

    From what I read, though - it sounds like both of you need to change a little ... she needs to realize that life outside of her own 'does' go on... and she needs to stop living in the past a bit and being full of herself (the dog situation, keep saying she's something that she might not possibly be....dwelling on situations)

    However, I believe you also need to realize that sometimes you need to sacrifice things you like or do to achieve reaching other goals (meaning - sacrifice a little computer time or even books - if that's what it takes to be with her, and if you truly want to be with her)

    This is just my advice, but do what you think is best ... it 'Is' your life you're living - only you can know for sure what you'll want to do or who you want to be with... but if you think she's the one you currently want to be with, good luck - and I hope you two will do fine :)
  5. Why can't people just accept compliments?
  6. You're too young for a girlfriend Anyway, It will most likely blow over. Just give it time
  7. I'm not entirely sure I understand the situation. She prattles on about how awful she is because why not, you stand up for her, and you're in trouble.

    First instinct, if I'm reading this correctly, would be to bail out. Hard. People like that are passive-aggressive and self-destructive. You shouldn't worry yourself over someone who is trying to absorb the attention and time of everything. She wants people to acknowledge how "bad" she is so she has a reason to unjustly feel bad about herself. Any real friend would recognize this behavior, but as far as I can tell she is simply using you to garner attention.

    Are you self-centered? Perhaps. I don't know a lot about you, personally. It could be said that you're only interested for the books, which would be silly at best. However, the fact that you tried to defend her self-image rather than ignore the situation is proof enough to me that "other people" are at least vaguely important to you.

    Don't let her take control of your life, when she so clearly has lost control of her own. Learn from her mistakes but don't emulate them, because she is very clearly more self-centered than you.
  8. He is not too young for a girlfriend, or any kind of relationship. 12/13/14 is actually about the time you START getting into relationships, you get experience of what not to do in a relationship and what too do, you learn from mistakes.

    In regards to volt.

    From what you've described, she's making threats in the moment of things, many people do this when they're angry, give her time, she will calm down and then try to talk to her about how you feel and what you've told us.
    PandasEatRamen likes this.
  9. You're entitled to your view, but I am 15 in a week.

    The answer to that question...if I had it....

    No, but you see, I forced her to change at one point. This is vengeance, I couldn't recognise Caitlin would change on her own when we split, she's not going to recognise I can change on my own.

    She got me a gift, made me believe I was going to get it, and has now revoked it and is threatening to destroy it unless I comply with her demands. What can justify this?

    I do admit that it does come off as slightly offensive, but she knows that's not my intention.
    I can't exactly tell her to be quiet about the dog, she has said she can't get it out of her conscience.
    The whole thing about sacrifice, it's not that relevant. In her words, I have to 'be her best friend again'. I tend to be rather distracted making posts on EMC at times, and when she notices I haven't responded to her on facebook chat she tends to throw a hissy fit saying I don't care about her and the like.
    As for being with her, I can only really do that if I know we can have a relationship like before February. Without doubt, those were among the best days in my life. My god, nobody here has an inkling of an idea of what that was like, not even me, and if I described it all, you wouldn't understand the full scope of it. For the first time in my life, I was that close to someone. All the fun I had with her...I still struggle to accept that all actually happened, and I think about it all a lot. The only thing I would take away from it would probably be my particular attitude towards her which led to the split.

    If there's no chance I can return to that point in the relationship, I wouldn't try to get there, but I would still be obliged to still continue a friendship with her otherwise she would fall apart, I tried to get out once at a point where it seemed unlikely I would be returning to that point in the relationship. I ended up holding her as she cried, softly saying she wanted her dog, and at the end of it, I was forced to assure her I'd be her friend, because I could not, in all good conscience, just leave her.

    Also, I'd like to admit that Brit and Pandas were absolutely right to call me out on my 'Random expression of frustration', because I now have huge problems in comparison to that, and I pretty much feel like a jerk.
  10. Still, your life does not need to be filled with this kind of stress volt is going through at the moment. Besides, the girl he is dating now (Sorry volt) Will most likely not be his future wife.
  11. Better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all.
    You get experience from relationships that work and fail, it basically boils down to experience.
  12. If someone is trying to manipulat you in a relationship that's a good sign to cut it off, pronto.
    This is actually the expected age to find someone. A lot of people already have or had a girlfriend or boyfriend by that age, and people are still expecting me to as well.
  13. She has stated I won't just get the books after one good day. I'm too naive to take this into account and tell how serious she is.

    I would be very nervous in regards to bailing out hard, having seen how she has coped with the possibility of me abandoning her in the past.

    You don't understand the situation entirely, there is another layer. I have taken an attitude towards her in the past, similar to how men would openly encourage women to take measures to look better, but different. And weird.

    In this argument, she thought I was motivated by what my attitude was motivated by, rather than simply insisting that she does not look fat/ugly/etc. When she called me out on it, I disagreed, she got angry for being immature and not taking responsibility, she made the book burning threat.

    I defended her self-image for the reason I do all things; the pursuit of logic. She calls herself ugly, she provides no evidence or an explanation to show this. I call her out on it, she continues to call herself ugly, ignoring my points. To a degree, it might have been a concern for 'other people', but it is vague importance at the most.

    Books do mean a lot to me because of the ideas they carry. In particular, the books of a secular/atheist/humanist theme which she got me. These represent ideas which are a part of my identity, which I have had to defend vigorously in the past. Therefore, they are not really silly.

    As for the proposal she's more self-centred than me...that makes a vague sort of sense. It's difficult to get used to, I'm used to her being right.
  14. I wish I could help as far as a situation as such, but I'm out of any sort of experience in relationship with girls. I have only discovered most things about them through my sisters. It would seem that you and your personality 'fit' with her image (whether selfish/self-centered) of the guy she wants. She wants to believe that you two are going to continue the relationship (hence the gift), but out of whatever her motive is, she thought you needed to do something or change a certain thing for it to work. Ultimately, change always happens for good or bad, it happens; however, one needs to look bad the defaults in the other in order for such to work. Everyone has defaults! The personal problem is the both of you and only the both of you can work it out. If there were other ways to fix it, many relationships would continue, but communication is how it can be resolved. I hope the best for you (even if the best is you two stop hanging out or talking or go away from each other), may God bless you and help you make the best decision.
    PenguinDJ and cddm95ace like this.
  15. Statistically you are very right. But there are certain skills that you want to strengthen early on, because if you dont, you may just be pushing off that stress to a later date (no pun intended). While stress is not good, it helps prepare a person for life on their own.
  16. Sorry volt. I'm not too good in these situations. I'll never be able to deal with anything like this until maybe high school (I know I'm crazy).
  17. Psst.... over here... maybe get a dog from the shelter and give it to here :)
  18. I dated, and still do the girl I met around the age 14-15. We're both 20 and she's pregnant with my future son we're also engaged, so back up bro.
    PandasEatRamen likes this.
  19. c3d0981ae770f926eedf4eda7505b006.jpeg
    I dont think that it a great plan....
    NINJATTILA likes this.
  20. There's a difference between a girlfriend and a girlfriend. You can still be a couple and do things together that you both have in common and all but most people nowadays see relationships and being a couple as "Aww yeah we're together, now we can do it like monkeys!" You never know whether or not she will or will not be his wife. You know where everyone usually met their husband in the old days? School: "Oh we met in # Grade and got married after high school." Work: Yeah we worked together at a theater/farm/store for the summer when I visited my grandparents." etc. Nowadays it's different for some people because society has stopped assigning ways of life to certain gender roles. Most of the people I went to school with met their husbands in school.

    Volt, The two of you need to work on things. Sometimes the best thing for relationships is to sit down and actually talk things out instead of raging at each other and getting mad and threatening things. Don't flip out on each other, think before you speak and don't interrupt. Just take turns listening and then discuss the matter. Think about the things you do that you feel upset her and she should do the same on things she feels upset you. Communicate and discuss. If, and I hope it doesn't turn out this way, things can't then be worked out enough that the two of you can be in a relationship then try to end things on a good note and be friends.
    We weren't trying to make you feel like a jerk, we were just explaining that while you felt it was such a horrible thing for your mom to want the light on, you felt it was something so severe you had to essentially "throw a hissy fit over". She loves you and just wants you to take care of yourself and not strain your eyes on the computer. Brits may also have sounded rude but she didn't mean it to. There are those of us out there who don't have a mother to take care of us, spend time with us, be concerned for us.