[Feature Discussion] Empire Shop Update v2

Well damn, we might as well have a cake-based economy.

All in favor, aye?

AYE!!!!!!

My previous posting is a bit provocative, but with no real intent of bashing or attacking anyone.
My intent is to show and underline the flaws of the current ingame monetary system.

I'm sure there are many supporters that are willing to pay not because of the daily
portion of rupees, but because of the good work of Kalland Labs.
Though, from my game experience, I think they are minority.

I do not think supporters mean ill.
I just think that buying in-game goods for real money under the title of support for server maintenance isn't desirable.
Yes, i think it is sort of cheating, because it makes that players do not have equal chances in the game, it is sort of breaking the rules of the game.
I think it can hurt the community and gameplay, but it is currently not a big deal because of mentioned facts and outlined situation.
No bashing.
Perhaps you could add an option to become (or continue to be) a supporter without getting daily rupees and be "true supporter" or "power supporter" or something like that.

I neither really want to bash ill-bred, lazy and spoiled kids ... I wish they could learn something and develop through the game and interaction with other players.

I agree a separate thread would be better to discuss the game money system, I answered to this thread because in the OP, you have proposed fees and taxes in order to create artificial money drain in package with the improvements to the shop system. I think the correct approach to the problem is to deal with its source.

I've tried to make my suggestions clear enough, but there are still misunderstandings.

I am suggesting the very opposite. To NOT to copy real world failures, problems and "solutions" into the game, but to have a natural, healthy and stable monetary system that encourages development and fair play.
Anyhow, saying "just won't work" or something like that is not enough.

I'd go for the real thing, not for a flawed design that needs to be kept "in check" and works "just fine" with patches.
I think it would pay off very well.

Have fun!
MM

You are missing the point. In real life, its complicated. We would have taxes, have limited resources, ect. We cant copy that, and it wouldnt be a good idea. Also, Aikar asked you to stop bashing supporters. Did it ever occur to you that some of them do it to support EMC? And to have some more fun? And calling them lazy, spoiled little kids, which they are not, is not only bashing them, but it seems as if you are TRYING to offend them. Again, you are proposing to cut the rupee bonus. How do you expect any new players to start a good shop? They have to buy things, likely, and if you spent all of it... It would not be pretty. You are a NEW member. You may not just use the forums, but Ill assume you do. Who are you to make assumptions about us? Who are you to say we need to have kill the fun of the majority of players, since the people who rarely spend money will never gain any back?

I couldn't get past the hypocrisy here...

EDIT: Also, if you would like to know, the reason I became a supporter was for the "/map hide" feature. Then I went from iron to gold supporter for the 2nd res, and access to utopia. Shortly after going gold I reset both of my residences since I moved to the wild. I remain gold mostly because I like to support EMC, and I get way more than my $10 worth of entertainment each month.
Rupees were never a factor in my decision to become a supporter. I am at roughly 400k right now, and my daily rupees account for under 10% of that.

What people blindly assume of others usually speaks zounds about themselves.

Your saying that supporters are people who want more rupees... about 90% of the supporters don't do it for rupees... I got it mostly so I could still chat but not be in town.

I for one, and a Diamond Donator and a 2 x Gold donator. I do not do it for the rupees or the perks, I do it because I love EMC.

We must start an anrgy mob to kill Dr.M1ner, who stole a dead supporter from the graveyard, and created him into a hideous monster. But first, we need to find a way into his castle, called Castle M1ner. You see what I did there?

It seems that you didn't read the thread, you're not making sense.

I am against copying RL failures and problems, taxes and fees, protection, ...
I'm voting for fair play where all players have equal chances in the game.

Aikar is proposing to introduce taxes and fees, while reducing them for supporters.
This is / would be copying of the RL and associated problems.
I am trying to explain why this is not a good idea.

Please read the tread again before posting, ask and I'll try to explain if something is not clear.

No. You didn't really read my posts, did you?
I did not call supporters any names. You're making invalid conclusions. Please read again carefully.

Now please read what you have written again, and then again. Think about what you're saying.
It very well underlines what I have written about in my previous posts.

It wouldn't be pretty without getting in-game stuff without playing and effort? Huh?

What are you trying to say? I may not just use the forums? You're not making sense, please explain.

I have explained where my assumptions come from.

This is ridiculous.

I am saying that fair play is fun, not the opposite.

What are you trying to say?

I'm sorry if I have offended any supporter. It was not my intention. Please accept my apologies.

I (did) say that I've met unfortunate kids in the game who do have and/or hope to get supporter status in order to get power in the game. One of them (diamond) blew up my xp farm with TNT and tried to kill me several times, and is now banned for good. The other 3 "I might get diamond" are banned as well for griefing and PvP. Numerous screenshots available.

I've also met supporters who are wonderful characters.
I speak from four weeks of rather intensive ingame experience on smp6.

Sure, one does want to hide to escape stalking and griefing. Why shouldn't every player be able to protect himself?
This is an issue to think about, but it is OT here.

I'm not a supporter yet. And I can play MC ... come to my shop and see. I have never asked for nor get a substantial donation. I even refused when asked if I need a donation.

----------------------------------

No. Sorry. I do not want to say that.
I hope what you are saying is true, although my experience was different.

If 90% of supporters do not care about the daily rupees feed, then yay!
It wouldn't be a problem at all removing it in favor of honest and fair game play and support for server maintenance.
I'll become supporter the very next day.

Well, I'll be upfront with you. At this point, I really don't see us getting rid of rupees.

Rupees are good ... What do you mean exactly?
The problem is only about how they get into the game and if players have equal chances, if the rules are the same for all players in the game.

They are the same. We don't give individual players any special opportunities that others don't. Look at almost every successful online game with an economy. Farmville, if I'm not mistaken is toted as the worlds most successful videogame in the world, even above Halo, COD, etc. They have their daily 'signin' bonuses, and you can get more (as many as you want) by paying.

OMG - after reading all this, I may as well have sat and watched BBC Parliament - much the same bickering

Hear hear

For approximately 1,300r you can get a Fortune 3 pick. That is, one every day for a diamond supporter.
Isn't that a very special advantage over other players?
Or have I misunderstood something?

Well, let me answer with two funny links ... you get the point, no offense intended
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2xsHATZsTg
http://www.7ideas.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/blog_ipad_printing_big1.jpeg
(#21 from http://www.7ideas.net/idea-killers/)

It does not matter if it is a small amount - then it is a little help for beginners, doesn't hurt anyone.

... by paying with real money?
Nothing to do with MC in any way I hope. Please.
Let me think ... I could hire ... and pay ... no ... better not to think further.

Are you saying that you've already made the decision, so further discussion is not needed (for now at least)?

lol yeah come on you really do it for the xp at the grinders

Are you kidding me? 1,200 r a day its peanuts, any one be it supporter or not CAN easily make quadruple that amount in just under an hour, http://empireminecraft.com/threads/...f-rupees-fast-without-being-a-supporter.5504/ Follow this,

Also for information last month I made 300k in one night not by being a diamond supporter but my buying and selling enchanted items... and remember we all start with the same amount of money

But I haven't even done any xpgrinding this entire month? Lol.

Well, that could change. I've got a 5x, 4x, and 3x all within 100 blocks