[Suggestion] EMC 'reform'

Discussion in 'Suggestion Box Archives' started by synth_apparition, May 7, 2015.

  1. Good morning!
  2. Please do enlighten me as to how it will take you so long to do such the task. what is so custom this all. The onky custom thing i can identify is the rupees and login form.

    And if you are so worried about the security of information, then you would know that there has been several updates to XF that are for purely security issues one of which is major.

    So do tell me, and the community why it would take so long to update and why the security of all the data of your "300,000" is running off of an easily accessible XF install.
    Bro_im_infinite likes this.
  3. Calm down. You are talking to the person who bought this server to help the community.
    Perry_Stahlsis and jkjkjk182 like this.
  4. How accurate word choice.
    I am not exactly certain as I neither have forums Dev access nor the knowledge related to site stuff. But as I understand, pending confirmation, is the dependency on the supporter upgrade system with XF which was then altered such that you cannot just update. More specifically, ranks/billing have a very hard dependency on the forums.
    Edit: oh and I would assume the rest of the time factored in is the research required to implement these changes in the newest version while allowing the ability to update. Along with general familiarity/research of the updating process
  5. Let us imagine that you own a website that, when handed off to you, had many custom and complexly integrated things set in place (ie not simply plugins that are just thrown in a folder) because the prior owner figured it was better to do that than prioritize future upgrading. Now, you get to work on the transition to a newer version, breaking almost all previous work. That would be harder than just adding simple colors to certain member's ranks, online indicators, or adding themes, would it not?

    Use your understanding of web development to help others, not to attempt to shame them. How about giving some suggestions on how to streamline this?
  6. Here are some custom things:
    • Billing
    • Ranks
    • Rupees
    • Login
    • Registration
    • My Empire
    • There are several extra CSS parts added too
    • and more...
    While it'd be nice for the site to update, it just isn't too easy because of the complex nature of how it all works.
    Perry_Stahlsis likes this.
  7. too long dont care, only part i cur aboot is the forums update, i think its time. while everyone is all excited about 1.8 and once the bugs get all worked out me personally would be okay with no updates while the site is upgraded. it doesnt have to be flashy but if you go on the other big servers youll notice a difference. i dont wanna say the emc site looks cheap cause that isnt the correct word, dated maybe? ill edit this when i figure out what i mean
    edit: naive is the best i could do
  8. Great idea.
    1. Roll out new version of Xenfro
    2. People are liking the new features, forget about dragon tombs.
    3. BAM! Aikar releases step 3 and 4 quietly.
    Does it look too old? Childish? Curvey?
    Bro_im_infinite likes this.
  9. Colorado's been through all that. The catch is, usually in a single day.

    What I mean is it'd be hailing one minute, the next it calms down to a slight drizzle. Two minutes later, full blown thunder, rain, hail. 5 minutes later, complete sunshine.

    Colorado, you worry me.
  10. I think it's truly amazing how much cool stuff we have in EMC and the great staff that holds it all together.

    The logo and forums really don't matter much to me.

    I think Aikar is already rethinking dev roadmap and adjusting to give us the most benefit. I personally hope it's /LandClaim, Town V2 (a paired down version of infinite lot generation plan), then Empires lite, then dragon tombs v3 lite. This covers all play styles, let's us stop lieing in /motd about max res vouchers, brings people together and gets some return on the initial tombs investment.
  11. i think the best word i can think of is naive
  12. To clarify about the website as best I can:

    The website is not as simple as some may think. The supporter system is routed through it in a rather wonky fashion that was established long before Aikar took the reigns. Aikar has been wanting to fix this for a while, but the current system works and it's difficult to knowingly break a working system in order to update. Just to update without breaking things will take creating a database of the supporters, freezing supporterships, updating the forum version, creating a brand new supporter plugin code, etc (or at least that's my understanding of it). I'm sure there is a lot more.

    To put it bluntly, I really don't know all that it will take, but I know the minimum that will have to happen and it's going to take some time to figure out how to do things without breaking the supporter system since the game and the site are integrated thanks to a section of code that really shouldn't have been used in the first place. At the time it was created, it was the best option for EMC and I can respect the creator for that reason. However, we DO want to fix it because we plan to be around long enough to need multiple updates. =)
  13. It will take week(s) to study the current code base, get a listing of all the core modifications, upgrade the core files, REDESIGN the changes to not rely on core upgrades where possible, and come up with a future upgrade plan if it does absolutely require core modifications.

    And that's the small (but most important) part!

    Templates... They are a nightmare. Justin admitted this many times: He made tons of mistakes in setting this server up for maintainability. He went through the effort to access debug elements of the site and modified the CORE templates that are default not even possible to edit, because your not suppose to.

    We have no documentation on what templates are modified... So it's to then install new template in a 'clean' slate, and find out what's broken, and go through it and repair it as I can find.

    And the biggest part of the modifications is Supporter system. We CAN NOT have bugs there...

    And this is all coming up with a 'plan' in a test environment, rolling back constantly throughout the process as I find a way to do it better and need to RETEST the plan.

    The ultimate goal being the least amount of downtime, and the least amount of breakage in usability of the website with our customizations that the community is use to.

    Considering I am an adult with obligations and responsibilities in life... that leaves me with 20-40 hours a week at absolute max on EMC and that's pretty much ALL of my free time, and will always lean towards the low end.

    Also, There's no other web developer on our team (well socks has done some stuff in the past, but I'm sure he would admit this is kind of too big of a project for someone under senior level)... And I surely am not opening up access to users password hashes, emails, billing transaction logs etc to someone who's not even at a trust level to be on our staff team...

    Sorry that won't happen.

    Anyone who can pull off all that in less than 72 hours (ie: 2 weeks worth of work), and has a clean history with EMC, then please send me your resume (and why you haven't offered to help with development before!)

    I feel like my expertise is in question here - So incase it's not known, I am a Senior Software Engineer for a career, focused in the Web Development area, with 13 years of experience. I am also a Systems Administrator, Systems Engineer, and you could say a level of Security Engineer. Running in EMC I've dabbled in minor networking too.
    I am a jack of many trades, master of some.

    I have reviewed our version of XF and manually applied security patches for things that affect us (most notably the swfupload)

    I work in the industry with tons of brilliant people so I have information sources to know about all of the latest exploits, and patch our systems immediately when the fix is released.

    Any questions? :p
  14. I set up a blog for a highschool class once, does that count?;)

    But for real though, I knew you were a software engineer, but I didn't know you are at the senior level! Lol I feel like such a peasant now, this being my first year in a computer engineering program. Almost completely off topic, but in your degree program, did you have to deal with the electrical engineering side of computer engineering? If so, got any tips for me?:D
    Perry_Stahlsis likes this.
  15. I started programming when I was 16, and by the time of high school programming classes, I had already outpaced everything they taught.

    Then the same happened for College... In both cases I helped the instructor teach the class.
    So, I only went for an Associates Degree just to have _SOME_ paper to help land that first job, and Associates has a lot less involvement to stuff like that.

    Typically for programming at BS level you would go for Computer Science.
    Computer Engineering is closer to hardware level so electrical engineering makes sense.

    http://www.eng.buffalo.edu/undergrad/academics/degrees/cs-vs-cen
    While a CS degree would of helped me earlier in my career knowledge wise, now I already know all the things it teaches too, without all that student debt =P
  16. There was a thread awhile back - I was willing to do it, yet it was said that autonamus would 'have results by the next week' ... and all trust was put in him.

    it's been over half a year since ...

    The things that need changed however, are:

    a static background image - perhaps also with a banner-based logo.

    improved automated mailing system - that actually includes snippets of the reply/message

    responsive navigation sizing for when the screen becomes smaller

    screen adjustability - and id/class visibility on change of screen size (especially for mobiles or tablets)

    There are plenty of device readers and browser version readers, which may prove useful for having a separate site for mobiles all together instead of having hidden size responses and divs within the coding

    Dynamic alert bars - alerting you when someone typed a message while you were typing - or you receive a newer alert before you refresh the page.

    ---Yes xenforo already has some pre-built features that minecraft users/emc uses ...

    But except for the login/signup ....everything else is literally just pulled from a database.
  17. Having a separate site penalizes you these days. Users don't want to downgrade features/usability. They just want the site to work better at small sizes, and access same features through different methods that's more mobile friendly.
    Perry_Stahlsis and JackBiggin like this.
  18. I'm just wondering, while this will certainly add to your workload, would it not just be easier to rebuild everything from the ground up? Get a fresh installation of XenForo , a new theme (possibly bought custom from someone) and then program completely new add ons as needed on top of that instead of trying to migrate old code to the newer updates?
    jkjkjk182 likes this.
  19. That is mostly what would be done.

    Lot of our stuff is already in Addon form, so its getting the rest where possible as addon form.

    Already am eyeing certain theme :p looking to do one with AD Styler so users can still keep that personal feel to the site (and have more control over their own colors)
    jkjkjk182 and mba2012 like this.
  20. Although I have been involved with web development since the mid 90's (not as active in the last few years) I would not want to be assigned the task of upgrading this site. If we were talking about a standard, non-hacked, version of the forum software then sure, but we are not. Also, even though I feel I am a trusted member of the Staff team I would not want any level of access to billing systems or information. That's just a personal thing.

    I agree with Aikar's time to complete. It is not just a case of downloading the latest version, tossing in plugins and hoping for the best. If it is going to get done it MUST be done right so it will take time.