[Feature Discussion] Empire Shop Update v2

I find that hard to believe. I know of plenty of shops I can sell logs to for 80+ a stack and can constantly sell to them without worry of the chest being full. At the same time, there's a good amount of shops I can buy logs from for under 80 a stack daily.

Aikar is just taking away using common sense with reselling and replacing it with commands for the lazy who "cannot make money when they start". Anyone can make money. Just sell to a shop after farming and mining. It's simple.

Than leave. You dont like it youre one in 40000.

Please stop being so butthurt and accept the fact that not everyone has the same opinions. You're comments are becoming just slandering and hatred towards myself which is unacceptable. I suggest you go read through the rules again and make sure you understand them properly.

Telling me to leave because I don't like something is ignorant. I did not say I did not like it, I said it won't work and is flawed. If you cannot accept that I have my own opinions as you and everyone else does as well, don't bother saying anything.

ok rob, but i don't see the problem in the scenario you just outlined. obviously whatever shop sells them to you for less is happy because you are cleaning them out and the shop you're selling to obviously wants the logs so they're happy.

so in the new system if they weren't happy they could easily use the commands to see that they could buy logs for cheaper if they wanted to. they could even find that shop you're buying from and buy them straight from there if they wanted to.

if you're argument is that this is a bad thing, and it's already happening... then that makes no sense. if you're arguing that it makes it easier then my response would be that it's already easy.

besides, if you're saying this is all a bad thing... the whole buy low, sell high strategy... then why are you doing it with the logs?

all that to say that the benefits outweigh the negatives, although i still haven't seen a negative pointed out that makes any logical sense.

Sorry for being a pain. The point is WHY are you hating on it? What bad could come from it existing? Its a 5 percent fee!

It's not the fact that reselling will occur, it is the after effects. Like I said, many big shops complain about resellers and ban them from the shop, then you get complaints from them in chat, PM's, /reports, and so on and it become more of a havoc than necessary. Of course reselling occurs now, it is part of the economy. The fact that people get pissed off about it is the problem. With Aikar simplifying the process of reselling it will just become worse than it already is. Do you get it now?

Thats never a problem that i hear. Reselling.

really... you've seen big shops complaining about resellers? usually i've seen the smaller shops complain that bigger shops buy them out.

either way, it's all about perspective.

as a shop owner if you are being bought out you should be happy because you are doing what the point of your shop is to do which is sell things. if you want to revisit your prices and see if maybe you should change them then now you will have an easier system to use to do this.

if you are a buyer you can now find out easily who has the best prices. this will make it so big shops can't price gouge after buying out a smaller shop because no one will buy at a higher price shop when there are smaller shops with better prices.

whatever scenario you can come up with i can show you why this problem would exist with or without this new setup they are going to implement. the problem isn't the system, it's players complaining because it's easier to complain than to think logically and fix the problem.

Yeah, big shop owners ban people for reselling all the time by removing their movement perms. AlexChane(no offense to you bud) would be a prime example of this. But it is this movement permission removal that causes all the disruption. The player who gets the perm removed most often complains about it in chat, /reports it, sends staff PM's about it, make threads about it. That is the key issue here.

I would like to bring up a point that aikar made here, "If everybody uses and people don't visit shops anymore then it's clear people like it", There's a huge difference between like and forced. Another game I play (Runescape) pretty much forces people to use a system to get rare and unique items (Squeal of Gameruiner) They then claim that 96% of active players like and enjoy it. However people are forced into it.

Now my second point, Why should some Random Joe be able to just place down a shop and have exactly the same chances of selling all there stuff compared to someone who has just spent 5/6/7 weeks building a shop for players to use. It's not how it works in real life. Don't give my the eBay excuse that, if anything is more difficult to work, you have to send the item. With this you can just place it in a chest and be done with it.

Its not an issue at all. For one; Players do this anyway!
secondly; Simply add a new staff member with the sole job of controlling chat. A chat mod.

Please stay on topic guys.

Oid, we're not angry with rob. We disagree with his view that this is as 'flawed' as he thinks, but that's going to happen from time to time. Things with games change and that's just how it is. You either evolve with it or move on to something else.

For example (as brought up in a few posts above) the XP is changing in a huge way. There are some people who focus 100% on enchanting and selling items for huge profit. They don't really bother with huge shops, but the enchanting/auctions is THEIR thing. They'll have to adapt and likely find something new to make money with as it's predicted enchants are going to go down quite a bit.

The shop idea isn't nearly as "forced" as that is so I'm sure that the few people with huge malls will be able to adapt pretty easily.

Will there be an option to opt your shop out? Which would include opting out of the fees?

That's another thing. You are not forcing this system upon everyone, you are letting the system force itself onto everyone. As a shop owner you may not personally use the system but your shop will be affected by it thus making you use the system.

Few more things.

1. I don't appreciate you editing out a portion of my post that directly dealt with the topic of this thread.

2. Another problem with this system is the amount of lag it will cause. Each time you type the buy or sell command the system will have to read each shop from the database and send the information to you.

I would just like to point out, This is indeed a major factor of this update. This will cause I/O lag on the servers hard drive and could and probably would take in excess of 2 - 3 seconds to access all the shop data. and it would be stupid and irresponsible for a programmer to put that information that important onto the RAM (A single drop in power and it's all gone) and seeing as how unreliable the main servers shown itself to be lately....

I'm following this thread on a daily base and I see the're still arguments FOR and AGAINST this new version of the shopsystem. While both parties give very strong arguments and debate in a very good way, it is still very hard to say what will really happen to the economy. In the near future so many additions will change it and everyone has their expectations of what is going to happen.

In fact, I believe this is one of Schrodingers cat. If you don't know what I mean with that look here [Click Here]
We are not sure what is going to happen.

I propose that we have this new system installed for atleast a month. Then we should have another thread, able for everyone to give feedback, where everyone is free of speech and everyone's opinion is respected.
In the next month the feedback will be applied to the system if needed. In the end the goal is to please the most people, in the best scenario this is 100% of the players.

I edited your (and others) posts about off-topic discussion about (oddly enough) off topic discussions, haha. Nothing else was removed.

I'm not sure any more discussion can be had here that is anything more than what has been said over and over. Some people like the idea and some people don't. There are parts of every game that will have parts that people like and don't like. Even in my favorite games, they have things added that I wasn't a fan of and still am not. However, I understand why they had to add it for the majority. That's what we're doing here and we understand it's upsetting (months before it's even a thing to see if it's really going to be that upsetting) a few big shop owners.

I'm going to lock this for now so it doesn't keep popping up with the same arguments on both sides (for and against). When it gets to a point where we're ready to launch it again, we'll likely open up a new thread to let everyone know of the details.

Please refrain on making any more threads on the subject as we are a long ways away from it as it stands now.

We've had a lot of good back and forth discussion and all of it will be taken into consideration when we get to that point.

Thanks everyone.