Empire Shop prices have updated!

Discussion in 'Empire News' started by Krysyy, Jan 8, 2015.

  1. Having been to your profile page and seen the comments there, I will choose at this time to not engage you further. I find your comments, specifically twice in my posts and once from StandsinLava's, to be prodding, poking, and quite counter-productive to the real discussion here. I believe I explained my opinion, twice, and left nothing to the imagination.
  2. Agreed, fees for vault access are a joke. Even when very new to the server, I never hesitated to open my vault out of fear of the fee. When one can easily earn 1000+ rupees just voting in 5 minutes, paying 10 rupees for vault access is nothing.

    I've thought quite a bit about other possible money sinks. One would be a weekly lot rent. That could completely revolutionize the current derelict policy. Imagine rent of 500 rupees per week. That's less than the money obtained in just one day's voting.

    It would create a constant drain, thereby curbing inflation. Players that stockpiled rupees could take an extended break without fear of losing their lot; as long as their balance is sufficient to cover the rent.

    Ultimately it could even lead to more people voting as players look for ways to cover their weekly rent.
    M4nic_M1ner likes this.
  3. Another suggestion for a rupee sink (not new, was suggested in the past probably several times) - that goes together with lot fee:
    Buy supporter status or single perks for rupees.
    (Except rupee bonus, that wouldn't really make sense. :))

    For example, I'd pay the lot fee (per lot), named residence locations, residence tags, residence messages, town chat in the wild, reserved slot.

    More ideas:
    - Sell a building / contraption: you build something on a res and then you can sell that. The EMC staff moves it to the buyers res and charges a fee. (see also http://empireminecraft.com/wiki/senior-staff-services/)
    - Or you sell a whole residence - there is a fee for the ownership change.
    - Derelict residences go to auction, EMC gets the rupees.

    All of this could be automated so no manual staff work is needed...

    That would be fun!
  4. Don't know if this has been asked, but how come voting and spending real money is the only way to get rupees? Would selling items to the server ever be considered?
    M4nic_M1ner likes this.
  5. Not sure if your question is serious, but check this out:
    PenguinDJ likes this.
  6. The question is serious, there have been discussions about it in the past.
    It is possible to implement that but it is / would be not simple to get the automatic price adjustments right.

    However, there are enough player shops who buy stuff and have enough funds.
    Tub_Guy likes this.
  7. Enough shops do already by a lot and that is the best way of making money, because it is the fastest way of doing so.
  8. First of all, before I say anything else, let me make myself clear, I am not against the Empire Shop at all. I actually like it for the somewhat of a nostalgic feeling that comes with it.

    Now, that being said, if the point of the Empire Shop is to not act as a legitimate shop for the players, then what is the point for it being alive today? I understand rare things can be sold there, but now a days I could go to any supporters shop and find the per-say expensive and rare item in stock and at a much, much cheaper price than the "/shop".
    Sorry... just a curious "free player" wanting to know the reason behind the shop's existence today.

    Another thing I would like to address is this statement...

    Mr. Aikar, with all due respect, I must question this statement you made about EMC's 'old' economy.

    You directly state, as seen above, that the old EMC economy was "broken", but I assure you Mr. Aikar that is not the case at all. Back, some 1000 - 1100 days ago, the Empire's economy was booming. It thrived with economic chat, had a great of small businesses, and never failed making a poor "free player" wealthy. You could log onto the server and see at least 5 to 10 messages all containing some random marketing information. Yes, even though it was quite annoying, it was assuring to know that at any time you could make the money that the "free-player" is encouraged to make in the tutorial.

    Now this "fixed" market has destroyed that old, vigorous Empire economy that we all learned to love and has turned the idea of the average Minecraft player into what you Mr. Aikar call a "free player".
    This free player, such as I, now struggles to make rupees on a regular basis, excluding the ever-inflating system that we all know as the daily sign-in bonus. This free player's chat becomes draped in a curtain of sadness because the chat is no longer full of economic strategy and conversations. This free player's small business now drowns in red as his small shop gets an average of 1-2 visitors before it inevitably gets taken down by its depressed owner. This free player no longer has the will to carry on economically in the supporter owned, beloved server, that we call EMC.

    Because the supporters have the ability to literally control the market and its prices, the free player suffers.

    The free player is fed up. He is tired of seeing nothing in the chat. He is tired of seeing small business after small business fail as flocks of players hover towards the "mega malls" like flies attracted to a fatal light.

    Mr. Aikar, if you truly want a "fixed economy", then revert it back to the old days.
    Alas this is an impossible job for you, a coding mastermind as seen with the Dragon Tombs, to do single handedly. So Aikar, together, you and I look at the other 150,000 players on this server, "free" or not, and we ask them to change the state of the economy. They can do this by shutting down the "mega malls", filling the economy chat with offers and deals people cannot resist, and going out and finding their own resources by using this command that most people don't know called "/wild". We ask them to practically overload the Empire's internal rupee system with floods of rupee transactions. We ask them to take over the economy, as you, Mr. Aikar, proceed to withdraw your hands out of this wonderful Laissez Faire system on Empire Minecraft.

    Thanks for reading,
    The ticked off, 1221 day old, one handed typer because of a broken hand, "free player", named in the coding of Minecraft called..


    and many, many others..
    bluebiscuit2007 and PenguinDJ like this.
  9. I could spend it. You know why? Because in those days, our beloved economy was booming and my small shop, a dirt box that sold torches for 10 rupees and bread for 3, was thriving because I, a "Free Player" worked with many other members to earn rupees. Back then, the sign in bonus, was a bonus. NOT A 'PAYCHECK' OR A SUITABLE 'INCOME".
  10. Hey Hash98!

    I've been there and have experienced the facts you're writing about.

    Facts as I see them:
    Back then, some 1000 days ago ...
    ... the economy was booming.
    ... a free player was able to earn rupees quite fast.
    ... small shops could get customers if the owner was online and did answer to the chat ... "who sells stone?"
    ... there were big shops / malls which were very expensive and which had high margin, 100% was not an exception (remeber CallMeDeJaJa?)
    ... supporters were rich people, the free player were mostly poor
    ... as diamonds were around 25r, a diamond supporter was rich without much in-game effort. From the "free rupees", a diamond supporter could afford to buy 50 diamonds or a Fortune III Unbreaking III pick every day.
    ... there were quite a lot of people here, who were collecting / producing and selling stuff

    now ...
    ... supporters bonus is less significant, as prices are much higher
    ... free players have high "free rupees" bonuses (including those from voting)
    ... diamond supporter bonus can buy around 12 diamonds every day or around Fort.3 Unbr.3 pick every 4 days
    ... small shops still get customers if the owner is online and responds to town chat
    ... big / well known shops compete with low margin and struggle to get supply

    What happened in between?
    - There was a recession, EMC was losing players. Old owners gave up.
    - Aikar took over
    - Advertising started and new players came, but only small part of them was as economically active as the crowd before.

    What is fixed?
    Free rupees / bonuses have less weight. Supporters aren't the rich people by default. This is a good side of the inflation.

    IMO, the recession that followed has little to do with inflation, or better said, the inflation is just a symptom.
    It is more a change in the community. The people changed, and the new people are a bit different.
    IMO, this change is for a part a natural process, and for a part (recession, loss of players) an effect of the politics of the old EMC owners and staff.

    IMO, Aikar did some very good moves to stop and for a part revert that recession. EMC is on the way of healing, it is getting better. But this takes long time! It is about the culture of the EMC community. Improvements in the culture don't happen fast.

    What is my point?
    Healthy and fair economy is very important for the community. Problems with economy and lack of fair play have long lasting effects on the community and its culture.
    EMC is more fair (or less unfair) now than it was before.

    Come check 12162 and all the opportunities to make good rupees! Like for example 5k per hour for just collecting sand or wood.

    Purely economically, the free player is much better off now than 1000 (or 500) days ago.

    Just, it is debatable if giving high bonuses to the players will positively effect their work morale, economical culture and the community culture overall. This question is not new, it is here from the old days of EMC.

    What you are asking for would be "find players that are interested and active, eager to achieve something in the game and in the community, and who understand how to trade and exchange in order to reach their goals faster."

    What specific changes, do you think, would attract such good players?

    Yeah. I see a road leading there. A rather long road.
    There is a big, big question there though:
    Would people vote for EMC while getting only a "thank you" and some decoration items, without getting significant voting items / rupee bonus?
    Would people support without "supporter's free rupees"?
    Would people welcome the removal of "buy rupees" from the website?
    I would.
    bluebiscuit2007 likes this.
  11. Hey M4nic,

    A few comments to some of your post...

    To your 'fact' about supporters being rich, and the "free player" being mostly poor, I would have to disagree with you. Most "free players" became wealthy before they actually decided to invest real money in the server, knowing that what ever the decide to do with the real money could only benefit their in game play.

    To your second fact I quoted, diamonds were at this price for an short amount of time before they shot back up in price again. This was because people began to realize that no matter what, people will buy diamonds. So they literally said "to hell with it" and shot the prices back up. This is a legit business practice that is even practiced daily on EMC now a days..(example would be hmmm flowers... you can easily go out and find that but nobody will so the shop owners can raise the price without being effected badly.

    I agree with most of your post, but I also disagree with some of it.

    To your comments of it taking a long time to fix an economy, false. It would take the time that it would to tear down each shop sign on every mega mall. Simple as that.

    To your comment on would people vote... Yes, if they truly loved the server they were playing on, yes they would. They would do it because they would love the server's economy, and treasure the moments where they had and still have opportunities to make millions.

    Lastly I would like to state my hate for the usage of the term "free player". I despise this term because this player is a normal player. We should not be labeled based on whether we choose to send extra support to the server or not. Yes I understand if you're a supporter you should be called Iron, Gold, Diamond, etc. , but I, a normal player, should not be labeled cheaply as a "free player".

    Thanks for reading M4nic... I doubt anyone else cared enough... just shows how the times have changed.
    M4nic_M1ner and bluebiscuit2007 like this.
  12. I guess (and hope) you're right, at least for a significant part of the people. But 1000 days back, a new "free player" vs. a new "diamond supporter" was a huge difference. Many rather new people were like "oh, I can't wait to get diamond" ... And the majority opinion was that free rupees are the main incentive for people to "get diamond."

    AFAICS from the log, the price was under 30r from July to October 2012.
    I also recall that there was a duplication incident at some time, but I think it was some months before that period (?)

    Back then, in June/July 2012 I gradually stopped supplying big malls, I've had earned enough funds to start my own shop. I thought "this won't be easy - to start a new small shop among several well known malls... But I'll try."

    - What is different between the big shops back then and now that would make them undesirable now and was not there (or was not a problem) in the past?

    - What would happen if "mega malls" would close tomorrow?

    I see what you mean, but for me, in that "free" there is also freedom inside.
    Freedom is never cheap. :)