Today I decided I wanted to do my part in helping clean up smp8 Frontier. I wanted to clear out my res of all the dirt so I spent HOURS digging the dirt. I brought over a double chest of dirt and decided to begin the long task of cleaning everything up. I jumped into the Frontier Center and walked just outside of the safety zone and saw a nightmare. People had been strip mining, leaving random half torn down dirt huts, dirt pillars. If you have been to the frontier you know what I am talking about. Its hard to tell the difference between the Frontier and the Wastelands. I began placing dirt above all the holes. I dont have near the resources to fill in every hole so I decided just to make it look pretty by covering them up. I was cleaning everything up for maybe an hour when another player decided to come over and fight mobs. I didn't mind at first that they were killing mobs until I realized how badly they were at killing them. I watched as this person (who will remain unnamed) couldn't kill a creeper to save their life. They just allowed the Creeper to blow up. Not just one or to but all of them. Leaving a Creeper crater in the process. Not only was he doing this in an area I had yet to get to but also in the area I JUST cleaned up. I watch him blow Creepers by other peoples buildings that were clearly being used but also the area I was still working in. I messaged the person asking if they were going to to fix all the holes they just created. I got no response. I could see that they were reading the messages as they would stop and stand still for maybe 5-10 seconds after every message I sent. The person just walked off like nothing happened. Now when is it considered griefing? I dont think the person purposely lead creepers over to blow them up but they allowed them to blow up my hard work along with other buildings and did nothing about it. Isnt it part of our responsibility to fix mess ups that we cause? This server is going to go down the drain when people start leaving because of their hard work getting destroyed with no repercussion done to the people. If there are staff reading please give your opinion on this matter because something has to change. Isnt the Wastelands suppose to be for mining? Not the Frontier.
If he was only blowing stuff up by accident, this isn't griefing. The point he was doing it on purpose is for sure griefing. It would help if you had proof.
The only proof was i reported him right after i saw it happen. The staff i talked to didnt have an answer. It may have been accidental but no thought into helping clean up the mess you created is griefing. No wonder the Frontier looks like utter crap. Its because people like him dont care. Why even play on a server when the other people dont care?
Many people love the atmosphere of EMC and would do anything to keep it nice. The sad part is that it only takes a few people to ruin it for all of us, those are the people that don't care. And then there are people like you trying to preserve the awesomeness, and thank you for that. I don't think that would be considered griefing, although it could be considered "disrespectful," maybe the poor guy just wasn't meant to be a mob hunter
I hate stuff like that. The griefing on smp5 in the nether (near iron farm portal) is awful. Some people (or many) have gradually destroyed that place. It was all nicely walled off and looked cool. Now there's holes in the floors that lead to lava (and death for some) all the iron bars taken. I try to fix what I can but someone it's pointless. Same can be said with many nether rails. Some people just have no respect. They take all the redstone track and torches leaving the rest, digging up all the walls, etc. For some of us this is how we get back and forth to our base. We try to 'hide' some of the rail but all it takes is one fool and a good pick and it's all gone.
I think it would be great if, like, every once in a while, there was a small event, where people bring dirt, and started fixing up the frontier. Fixing holes, and whatever. There could be people who bring good swords and fight off mobs at night, and prevent Creeper craters where people just fixed the ground. Maybe you could suggest this to staff? I think they would understand.
Unless it was purposeful, no. Some people just aren't that good at Minecraft and really don't care about scenery. Honestly, the area right around the spawns is a mess and will always be one. I would recommend walking about 50 blocks and it suddenly becomes amazing. Go a little further and suddenly you are stepping on ground most players haven't stepped on. Not because it is far out, but because those who ignore the landscape and strip mine everything really don't have the patience to go more than a few blocks. Edit: If you reall want to improve that area though, bring many torches and a small army with dirt. Cover up the holes and come back every week or so to fix the new ones. This will always be an ongoing effort though.
That is exactly what I was doing today. Placing dirt and laying torches. I bet by the end of the weekend the holes will be gone and someone will have taken all the torches.
In my opinion, the definition of griefing is the following: Destroying or damaging property that does not belong to you without the owner's permission. Now, just take that definition, and apply it to what this player did. Did he purposely explode those holes? Does the property belong to him?
Griefing in Minecraft just means causing grief to another person intentionally, so what you said is only part of griefing, but there's more to it.
Unfortunately, as has been said, this isn't something you can point to and definitively say "GRIEFING!", dole out punishments, and be done with. However, like you said, there's still a lot of personal responsibility. Even if they may not have been purposefully leading creepers to blow up people's builds, it's still their responsibility to repair any damages. Its just common courtesy. A lot of people, however, don't see it that way, but you can still set an example by doing the best you can. I believe we had this for a little while (back before I left, so basically forever ago), but it never really caught steam and failed to really make an impact. I'd totally be open to doing something like this if we could get a large portion of the community involved. Also, I think we need to be stricter about mining in the frontier just to mine. I know quite a few people who see the frontier as more pristine and untouched than /waste and so consider it a better place to strip mine for rare resources like diamonds, emeralds, etc. If someone in a wilderness outpost makes a mine, sure, great, we actually encourage that, but if you're going out just to mine for resources, use /waste. If you can't follow that rule, expect consequences. Simple as that.
Not related to the griefing question,... But thank you for your effort to clean up the frontier, similar to what we try to do on SMP 6 If you need more resources, I will gladly provide you with everything I can spare! EDIT: For all people intrested : http://empireminecraft.com/threads/frontier-cleanup-smp6.48257/#post-875274
This is a very good point to raise. I too would love an answer on this, and if it's possible to detect apart from witnessing it!
EDIT: Also, would it be advisable to perhaps turn off creeper/mob griefing? This would stop indirect griefing via creeper explosions and make there less to cleanup. I'm pretty good at slaying creepers with a sword. (Pretty bad using a bow actually... more practice is needed I think) But when they do blow up I fix things! I have very strong and negative opinions about creepers. I shall keep them to myself, however. Disabling landscape destruction from MOBs would stop this from being an issue entirely!
I don't know the point of this thread - to address the issue mentioned, or to discuss griefing in general. There are two issues I see: 1) The damage to the frontier, which can more easily be fixed by instituting the reset zone and resetting it regularly. 2) A disrespectful player, who can be caught and banned with reasonable proof. Proof is not filing a report. Proof is taking pictures, video recordings, chat logs, etc... of the player in the act of damaging property repeatedly. The idea being to show staff inconclusively that the player damaged other player's property multiple times, in a way that would be statistically unlikely for someone who was just a poor mob fighter. As for griefing, here are a few definitions: "Griefing is the act of irritating and angering people in video games through the use of destruction, construction, or social engineering. Popularized in Minecraft by teams, griefing has become a serious problem for server administrators who wish to foster building and protect builders." - Minecraft Wiki "In online gaming where one repeatedly killing the same individual or individuals over and over again, or camping their corpse to prevent them from retrieving it, or otherwise performing actions in a game to prevent the player from enjoying the game." - Urban Dictionary "A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways. A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals." - Wikipedia "an online game player who intentionally spoils the game for other players" - Dictionary.com "(In an online game or community) a person who harasses or deliberately provokes other players or members in order to spoil their enjoyment" - Oxford Dictionaries "break other people’s creations" - Empire Minecraft Rules The wide variety of definitions entails a wide variety of opinions on what exactly entails griefing.
Unfortunately as discussed in another thread, the PRA was abandoned due to practical reasons. Plus given the sheer volume of new players (7000 per month) this could backfire in a big way if it were reinstituted. (Had it never been abandoned, this might not be the case... but we are where we are...) I agree that this is also part of the OPs question/concern and that you have good suggestions for how to approach the scenario that was mentioned. I also believe that the current EMC definition falls short, because someone can utilize creepers to destroy things. Short of being witnessed and screenshotted repeatedly, it appears there is little anyone can do. (Unless Mods can comment to the contrary) Also, I snipped your well documented alternate definitions for brevity sake. Thanks for providing them. I also believe there is at least an implied question of additional responsibilities for players who just happen to be poor mob fighters. That is to say Is there a community expectation that these people clean up the mess left behind after a bad creeper fight? I believe that there is: however, without a poll we won't know for sure. (And even then we'll only have the opinions of those who cared to answer it. Still, it's better than nothing.)
I know, i sometimes try to fix wild around spawn a bit too. (also waste) but if you filled one hole in a dike , your sure another one appear.
