EMC PVP - Preliminary community discussion

But dont you see? It would be a completely different server, its YOUR choice whether to join it. If PVP is not your thing, you would stay FAR away from it. Bottom line is, if you dont want to, or are not a fan of PVP then you dont join the server.

People have said this, and I agree with them, offering a separate PVP server would be great because it would appeal to a large number of other people. It would complete the package so to speak. YOu would have the SMP servers for the non pvp'ers and the PVP server for the PVP'ers. Its like a match made in heaven

No, its not saying COME XRAY. Who's to say people XRAY on the current servers. There are players on here that dont have the money to lock their chests. So if you ask me, your statement here is a bit open ended.

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Also, how about, when you join the PVP server for the first time you spawn somewhere random. And then from there on, where ever you log out will be where you spawn the next time you log in.

Hahaha, sure will do

Sorry just read it I didn't mean to steal your post

I've never really thought about PvP on EMC before, but I'm glad it's being discussed, as it was a kind of taboo before now.
As the discussion is about the concept of PvP on EMC, not exactly how it's implemented, I won't go into details.
Here's my ideas on the general advantages and disadvantages of a PvP server on EMC:

Advantages

• People who want to play PvP on EMC, and have been being shouted down on the forums until now would be better accomodated by EMC.
• EMC will have a wider variety for players and new ideas like this and Dystopia are what should hopefully sustain EMC's growth in the future.
• People like me who have never really tried PvP will have a chance to on a server that we know will be well run and organised.
• I think one disadvantage of vanilla minecraft is that once you're established on a world, it's pretty easy to stay safe from the mobs with a bit of thought and planning. PvP would definitely add more challenge!

Disadvantages

• As mentioned above, younger players might not understand the separation between the PvP server and the nomal servers.
• Also as mentioned above, encouraging fighting on EMC could induce more hostility in the EMC community.
• Spawn camping [Although suitable solutions for this have been mentioned above]
• Harder to enforce the other rules on the server perhaps? [I'm not sure if this is true or not]
• For some reason, PvP seems to be associated with hacking and X-rays. I'm not sure why people would use these cheats any more on PvP servers than they do on regular servers, but there is an association, and whatever the reason for this is, it's a disadvantage.

I'm sure there's loads more that I've missed off, but they're the ones that I can think of, off the top of my head.

Numerically, there're more disadvantages that advantages, but with adequate planning, EMC will hopefully be able to get over these, if a PvP server is ever introduced, and if this is the case, I would support the idea. As I said before, I'm pleased that we're discussing this, and this thread seems to be doing well at finding and solving issues with the concept.

Im not sure if im with pvp or against it. Ive played on only pvp servers before I joined emc. All the pvp servers had factions in it(which is a plugin where you can create or join a group). Pvp servers can have positive aspects though. In a pvp server you could join like a group and fight and build with other players which sort of allowed you to be friendly and trust other players. But pvp also has bad aspects. With pvp you could make enemies with each other players for killing you and taking the stuff you dropped. I sort of want an arena where you dont lose your stuff if you die and earn points or something so that it would be a friendly game.

My reservation about arenas is that they only really focus on one aspect of minecraft: fighting. A PvP server with a proper minecraft world requires all the usual minecraft skills (possibly excluding architecture), but enhances the fighting/defence part of it, and even adds an offence feature too. If there was a PvP server, fair enough, an arena would be a good idea for people who don't want their things stolen, but I think that it would need a proper wild too.

I agree that the friendlyness issue is indeed an issue though.

I haven't read the entire thread, so excuse me if this has been discussed prior.

Nightmare commented on how some players may not understand the difference between PVP and SMP servers, which is a valid concern. However, I have thought of a pretty neat workaround to that, and it would hold all players accountable for their dense stupidity if it somehow failed. (The people who failed here would be the people wh0 light people on fire as we currently stand.)

What I was thinking of was two separate tutorials one for PVP server and one for SMP server. They would have a different set of questions pertaining to each server type individually. Whenever you go from the SMP server to the PVP server, you will be sent through the tutorial again. Now, me being a long time EMC member, it takes me about two minutes to go through the SMP tutorial, so this wouldn't be a big hindrance to EMC veterans or really anyone who pays attention to the resources provided here on EMC.

So imagine there is some random player who joins a PVP server first. He (I assume it is a male) would be sent through the PVP tutorial just as a new member is sent through the SMP tutorial as it is. If he never left the PVP server and instead stayed there for his entire EMC life, he would never see the tutorial ever again. (Unless, of course, he typed "/tutorial" while standing in a safe zone.)

However, if the previously mentioned random player decides to visit SMP, he will be sent to the user tutorial for SMP servers along with a VERY BIG red warning stating that PVP IS NOT ALLOWED HERE unlike on the server which he just came from. Now, if he were to go back to the PVP server, he would be sent through the user tutorial again so he recognizes the change in the most fundamental rules of EMC between these two types of servers. Now, nobody traveling between SMP servers would ever run into the SMP tutorial for a second time, just as nobody who exclusively uses the PVP servers would ever run into the tutorial for a second time. But whenever you cross between PVP and SMP, you are sent through the tutorial.

Now EMC is not held accountable for the morons that somehow don't realize what EMC is, or what the rules are. This random player is told repeatedly what he can and cannot do and where some things are acceptable. If he lights somebody on fire in the Wilderness, that's all on him and he will be banned without a second glance. This is because he was warned, a lot. If you can't understand EMC after being warned 2347637853976 times, you obviously don't belong on the internet.

Also, I'm sure Justin could add a (more frequent) tip to the system that states "If you light somebody on fire or pour lava on them, you will be banned" to clear it up even further for those dense people who can't read signs.

I think that would work, as long as after you finished the tutorial you teleported back to where you were before (for people 20,000 blocks out in the wild). It would certainly stop people having the excuse that they got confused.

I forgot about the fact that some people actually move... Yes, that is probably a good addition. :D

I think PVP shouldn't be a 'goal-setting arena', but more of an ability. One server dedicated to PVP giving the person the ABILITY to PVP, but the motivation to do so should be more of self-defense, fending off people from mining what you've found (diamond/gold vein), and keeping people out of your home. It is my opinion that, if possible, if you own a residence on that server's town, your flag restrictions disappear when you are on your residence. So, as you're on your residence, if you aren't paying attention, players can rob you blind (all except for the build flag). With that, you would need to keep alert when working at your residence. If you are anywhere other than your residence, flags should be set to normal. This may create a few issues with setting up shops and maintaining them, but it is an idea to stem from. Just a little food for thought. Realistically, I like PVP. If you start to score it and/or create an arena, it takes the survival aspect out of the game.

My two-cents were given =)

I'd like to mention the idea JabrZero and I have, of making an EMC Hunger Games. The small detail specifics of how it would run haven't been discussed but some ideas that we've had are that people would be selected from each SMP + Utopia server, all of whom have the right to turn down the invitation. Then they'd all be tossed in a pre-designed arena and see who survives In all good fun, they would be sent into the arena with no items at all, and every item added to the game would be approved by the 'game makers'. Jabr and I would gladly build the arenas and get it all set up, and to make the games more unique, the game makers could be switched out to have new games going on. Its an idea that could use some polishing, but we feel it has a lot of potential

I was 100% against PVP servers, until Justin, myself and a few other friends went into a few and tried it. It seriously was a lot of fun. For those voting against it, but haven't tried it yet, I suggest going to try a few. Also remember that if we do this idea, we're going to EMC it up...meaning...don't think of things like: "In other PVP servers they do this and it sucks." If an idea sucks in PVP we'll remove it or fix it until it doesn't suck.

An example is super beasts raping n00bs at the spawn. We know how much this sucks and immediately left the servers that had this. We would find a way to give the n00bs a fighting chance of some sort. Also something to think about is this. I know some people are voting no out of fear it will come into their happy SMP lives. This is 100% not true. Justin and I will do everything we can to ensure people KNOW there is a difference with our PVP servers and our SMP ones.

I'm guessing that when you and few other friends tried it the following are likely to have been true:

- You went around as a group. This always makes PvP more fun. PvP is fun when you kill someone else, not when you get killed. Being in a group is great fun. (Until you find a bigger group of course)
- You were on a relatively even footing with other players. If you arrived and got spawn camped out of existence it wouldn't have been fun, or if players with much better gear kill you and loot your gear, that's not fun either. Especially when they offer to sell it back to you...

If we do implement PvP, I'd recommend the following:

1. PvP server is *completely* separate from PvE. This includes the vault and rupees balance. I don't think some players (supporters) should have an advantage in PvP (such as access to far more armour and weapons than people on a cheaper support tier).
2. Wait until capture the flag is introduced (it's in Dev I think), or develop some form of team PvP mod. Team PvP is far more fun for more players, largely beacause you can die a lot but still have a positive impact on the game.

The group part was especially true. However, we didn't do much killing. We took a different approach of stalking people and watching them build/put things in their base, then we would hop in and loot it while they were gone, haha.

I like the idea of having a PvP server. I'm completely for it, but ONLY if it's regulated/structured. I've never played on a PvP server, but unstructured PvP seems like it would cause a lot of problems. I also like the idea of arenas... So, combining the two, here's my idea (I'll try to keep it as short as possible and easy to read):

1. have a PvP server
2. set it up similarly to the "arenas" server, where you spawn in a central place and get tp'd to the arena upon clicking a sign.
3. The arenas:
a. Each arena would be a small (10-50ish chunks, or maybe slightly bigger) section of randomly generated map. b. Players would start with nothing but some food in their inventory.
c. Different arena sizes would be available depending on the number of people who wanted to play (i.e. 1v1, 2v2, 4v4, free-for-all, etc)
d. Last man/team standing wins.
4. Winners get a point, and losers lose a point. (This only applies if people want a leaderboard)
5. Possibly: Also have a continuous arena, which would would work like any PvP server.
6. Details (don't read these if you're just skimming through the thread):
a. Getting into the arena: first, pick the arena you want to enter, and which team you want to be on, from a list (on signs). You are transported to a "waiting room" (think of this like the CoD waiting room), where you wait for the other members of your game to join (you may leave at any time). Once the game is full, you will all be tp'd into the arena, either in a group with your team, or off by yourself somewhere.
b. spectating: anyone can watch, but only as a ghost (can't be seen/interact with anything). (Flying spectators?)

Also, yes, as Yukon1200 mentioned, I had the idea of the EMC hunger games when I read the books a few months ago. I'd love to see them happen at some point

Thoughts?

-Jabr

My two cents is to work on a vaild and workable solution to the current issues... instead of adding more...

Fix SMP griefing first... add some protection system. Then PvP would be an easy thing to add at some point.

We're not leaving SMP and all issues that SMP generates are still being worked on as much as we can. It's impossible to completely fix greifing, sadly but we're adding new features all the time to help battle it. In regards to a new PVP server in the meantime, we're ready to expand servers soon anyhow, so it's not really an addition side project, we're just trying to add some variety to the next server (if the community as a whole votes for having it).

I like the idea of a separate PVP server.

The people that have a desire to participate will have an opportunity to do so, while others will likely not even add the server to their server list. I agree that people will be upset when they get killed, myself included, but the same is true for some of my favorite video games and it doesn't stop me from having a great time.

I am sure that if this does become a reality, the PVP area will be clearly marked to the point that the warnings are redundant. Everyone participating will know what they are getting themselves into and will not be able to legitimately blame anyone else if they are not victorious in a battle; I believe that even the person that is killed will come around to this conclusion eventually, after the initial rage wears off.

TWo words- pvp wild.
separate world, it sends you a message asking if you're sure.

When the two in purple want something it will happen

Just set one up and make it a free-for-all test area....

The fact that you are asking the community is nice - but any bones you throw out will be gobbled by the wolves.

First of all, Justin hasn't given a timetable or anything (PvP isn't even a definite yes at the moment). I think this is more of a "could/should it be done at some point, and could it be done well?" discussion. As for griefing, it's a part of Minecraft. It is unfixable. As long as people are capable of being jerks, there will be griefers. Measures can be taken against them (and have been. EMC does a great job with this), but the best defense is an understanding that it can happen.

Still, I do agree somewhat with you in that adding a PvP server at the moment seems like a bit much. I feel like there's been a TON happening recently, and I think it'd be nice to have at least a few weeks of a break before the next big thing