Thanks guys. just thought I would double check since I hadn't seen anything that specifically said "do not" EDIT: Oops! forgot to quote. This is in response to cddm95ce and Penfoldex
I'm upset about the way this whole update was executed and I'm especially upset that my view is not even acknowledged or really considered. Do you really mean to say that: - Giving 48 hours notice is unreasonable. - Giving notice of a reset on the server is unreasonable. - Giving notice of a reset by email is unreasonable. - 5PM PST, 8PM EST (prime game time) is the best time to introduce changes that will result in downtime and glitches. Transporting items and tools back and forth to my base takes 30 minutes. Over a 3 month period doing this once a day, this is 2700 minutes, or 45 hours, an entire workweek of additional effort. Alternatively, notice could be provided in a reasonable fashion such that anyone paying attention could get their stuff out of the wasteland. Any one of the above would have resulted in my items being easily saved. Yes I saw the 'reset without notice' warning but I thought it was about the same as 'limitation of liability' which every single software known to man releases. I don't expect you to up and reset in the middle of a day without notice, just as I don't expect software from a trusted vendor to contain errors that damage my computer, even though the software license says there's that risk.
if you have that much stuff and can only make one trip a day for some odd reason you should look into mules and leads, its fairly easy to move threeish dc's without much trouble. if you are storing any more then that in the waste despite the obvious warning of "wastelands will be reset without warning" (the without warning part is very important mind you). then i dont really know what to tell you.... also its been known for about a week that 1.7 was coming out in a few days but the official "warning" which we didnt even have to give but did anyways was still more then 24 hours. sorry you lost your stuff but there was ample information out there telling you to not keep anything important in the waste. in the future (particularly before an update) as soon as the mojang release is out you should expect a reset within the month 1.7 just took considerably longer then that because of all the changes meaning you had even longer to move the stuff out before the reset. i mean think about it this way the server updates to 1.7, most people expect a waste reset, but imagine for a second that aikar did accomodate specifically you and the few others who might have had stuff out there. aikar and staff have to tell people sorry we cant update wastelands like we are supposed to but azoundria (or whoever) is still moving stuff back. i know it stinks when you lose things like that but looking at the bigger picture might put things into perspective for you.
Okay, perhaps it really is a huge deal to wait an additional 24 hours before resetting the wasteland. I mean, I don't fully understand the disastrous implications of that. Waiting 48 hours might also allow you to iron out some of the bugs that happened with this release, such as the one with item frames. With less than 24 hours between the release of bukkit and updating the server, how much testing could really have been done? I mean, the map still is showing chunks of the old world, which is really confusing. I've had to deal with the server being down during prime playing time, numerous errors upon connect, errors entering portals, errors with the new wasteland not showing signs, etc etc... 24 or 48 hours still wouldn't have made a difference if notice had been such that I saw it. One update on the front page of the site, only reaches people who look at the website. I suspect that your players are all similar to me, and don't check the website every single day. At no point up to the one right 3 minutes before the update did anything on the server actually say when it was occurring. At no point did I receive any emails about anything, even though I've received those in the past. The mule adds 15 slots, at a sacrifice of going about a third as fast as a horse. No matter what solution is found, it's still slower to have to move tools back and forth, and still easier to just grab the tools before the reset. Since the wilderness also lets you use the nether to move 8 times faster, it only makes sense to just use that. That's why I said the wasteland is useless. Now I hope those new wilderness outposts will be made with the same desperate urgency of this update.
We as players, have had plenty of warning about the wastelands. We have this thread itself, created about 24 hours before we updated. Now yes, not every player goes on the forums regularly, if at all, and that's perfectly understandable. We also have the warning every time you go into the wastelands "Do not build structures here as it can be reset without warning". On top of all that we have the very idea ever since wastelands was introduced that it would be reset every update, that's the very reason why there brought in the first place. Ultimately, we are very sorry that you lost your items, but to say the resets came without warning just isn't true in my eyes.
1. we arent working off the bukkit release we are working off the beta release from a week ago aikar helps them develop things as he works. 2. players discovered the item frame problem and sheep problem and we sent that info to bukkit. its impossible to test for every glitch as new ones always rise up. 3 emc has never had any real downtime that wasnt mojang related or physical server related our software is not the cause of those. 4. you didnt have 48 hours notice you had the day you stepped into the waste notice. since then you have known that wastelands will reset without warning you actively chose to ignore those warnings. 5. you can ride a mule and hold leads to direct other mules behind you thus extra slots. 6. there was no desperate urgency to release we released when we were ready you do know that 1.7 came out in October right? I know you are mad about losing your stuff. but quite simply you are wrong. no matter how you try to spin it you entered a place that warned you not to keep things there and chose to keep things there. its akin to a warning next to a stove saying stove is hot but you put your hand on anyways. there is nothing we can do if you are going to ignore obvious warnings.
Like everyone has said: 1. Every time you enter the waste, there is chat text saying that it may be reset anytime, do not leave anything there you don't want to loose, don't build anything you don't want to loose. (I forget the exact text) 2. There was messages in-game periodically warning of upcoming updates. 3. There was forums posts, and big news on front page that waste was being reset very soon. 4. Big red text 24hrs in advance that waste was about to reset, get your stuff out NOW. Even if you argue that the later 3 were not sufficient, number 1. still applies. You have only yourself to hold responsable for the loss of anything you left in the waste. Take a breath, focus on something else, move past it.
The implications of it is making every other player wait another 24 hours to get access to the wastelands that were created for the sole purpose of having instant access to the new world terrain after updates. It's not fair to every other player to make them wait for a small few who ignore the warnings about not building/storing in the wastelands... It's been over a week since Bukkit was released, not really sure where the 24 hour number came from. Item Frame issue was very specific, we cant test 100% every single tiny mechanic of Minecraft... That would take ages. The issues upon releasing the update could not of even been found in testing. They were very unique circumstances that did not apply to lower environments (SMP1/2 Hard drive was full and failed to update...) There has never been an email stating the Wastelands was going to reset. I have never sent an email stating that.
Again, we are sorry you lost the items, but again, the warning was there. there has been broadcasts in game for a few days now stating the update was very near.... That is a pretty ample warning it was coming. As said above, you have to realize you are one of a very small number of people who would store items in the Wastelands. How is it fair to make everyone wait when they so desperately want the update? I understand that you were away from EMC for a while and may not of been familiar with the Wastelands reset process, but it has been established that every version update resets the wastelands. This should be on the wiki (If its not, Jack fix it please ) We currently do not have an email marketing system setup yet, but that is one of the things I'm working on. By next update, we should be able to do this. Using the forums for sending a mass email is not doable. For normal updates, no we usually would not. But for major version updates yes this is the preferred time... I need to be available to resolve any issues as they come up with the update. I've released updates before going to bed in the past only to have serious issues crop up while sleeping. I learned to not send out any updates unless I'm able to be there for them for a while. Again, this is actually the design and intent of the Wastelands, is to reset immediately upon update. as said above, we will hopefully be able to email next time, but the general guideline is to avoid storing stuff in the wastelands, and if you do, get it out as soon as a major version update is nearing release.
I honestly explore with only an enderchest and a cheap silk touch pick. If I need anything, its in the enderchest. If I die I can suffer 500r loss at the most.
Sorry some people lost items. I think there are lessons to be learned by all parties in this situation. Clearly, the full understanding of the purpose and stability of the WASTELANDS vs Frontier worlds has not been explained to everyone, this is why skipping the tutorial was a hard decision to allow. Some of us DO visit the forums daily. I keep informed about these things specifically and have been a doing so for long enough to recall all of the discussion/ranting that came before the first wastelands release. The 'problems' that some see with the current system are actually carefully planned compromises. It needs to be more clearly explained that the intent is to get updates out to the wastelands as quickly as possible and without great amounts of concern by staff of the effects it will have for individuals. (take only what you can carry) The wastelands is still a very new feature of EMC. It is a great idea, has demanded huge amounts of work from staff, and works very well for those of us who use it. Improvements could be made and are requested constantly! Each change and update raises a whole new set of problems/discussion. Staff has always been very responsive to problems and worked for improvements. Generally, The frontier is stable, slow to change, protected from updates. The wastelands is not stable, could change quickly without warning, even between updates, and expected to be updated frequently. Thanks to Aikar for all his hard work.
I want to apologize if anyone got offended or upset by my posts. I only had to play other servers to remind myself of what a privilege it is to be a part of this one. (I haven't played other servers in a while, and that's why I forgot.) I didn't realize that emailing was down, so that makes sense. Most other policies on EMC are pretty lenient, such as I've been out of my res for more than 10 days and it never got destroyed as stated. (I think it finally took being inactive for about 2 months.) Last time the wilderness was reset, there was at least 2 weeks of notice, special accommodations made, etc... So I guess I know what was warned, but it just didn't fit with what I remember about Empire Minecraft. I don't know why I didn't clue in that the update meant resetting the wasteland until the very end, though in the last 2 months I've mined about 3-4 times the value of the lost contents. I knew there was the possibility of a reset, back when I set things up, but mathematically it makes sense to accept the risk given an update every 3 months. I'm also using an enderchest to move things back and forth at the time, so that's not an option. I hadn't looked into mules and leads. The furthest I've gotten was a horse. If I could get a lot of mules, then theoretically I could have nearly infinite capacity and that would solve the transportation problem. (I'm not kidding that I spend a sizable chunk of time moving the things to town, a good fraction of the mining time.) The issue with mules (the parts I don't know yet), is how tall a tunnel would have to be for mules to go through it, how they interact with mobs since there are always mobs near the spawn, would they get stuck in the holes in that terrain, once I got to the spawn, do they follow me back to town, how could I move them vertically if I do deep mining, how would they interact with nether portals, what happens if I log out to the mules, and of course all the costs associated with getting mules. If I get one of these wrong, then there goes inventory that may despawn on the ground or fall in lava, or a sizable investment in the mule. Most of these answers I can't find on MinecraftWiki yet, and obviously some of them would be Empire-specific.
tamed mules in empire do not despawn, and unless the chunk is loaded wont be moving around enough to fall in lava. in fact i dont think mobs will harm them if you arent riding them but i forget exactly how the dmg works. i think mules only take up two blocks high but they are also two blocks fat. best to move your stuff up to the surface then load up mules imo. before the reset i moves about 13 dc of zombie virus from my old broken momentus farm in one trip
So if I was planning to move things primarily in the nether, then I guess that mules would not go through the portal on leads, so I would need to bring things through and then load them up. When I dismount and carry load by load, are they registered to me so nobody could take the items or claim the mules?
yes tamed animals cannot be accessed (ridden, opened or damaged) by anyone although they can be pushed around by someone determined enough to do so
