What is Griefing? Is it a Rule or not?

in my mind if its clear what the area is supposed to look like, and you make it not look like that you are 100% griefing, i maintain a few spots that i try to preserve a natural look and have grown so tired of people just running along and lazily dropping a bed/crafting table/chest right in the midst of it. i think intent is really important in determining if someone is griefing. if you intended to make the area thats obviously supposed to look one way a different way you just griefed. even if that intent is just a result of carelessness/laziness.

Won't a one size fits all layout of the rule be just as confusing as what it is right now? Because then won't you have to try to fit your use case into something that might be so vague that it makes it even harder?

Right now there is confusion on what's allowed and what's not.

And let's not forget that public farms are a true labor of 💕 love and dedication of hours of time and tons of blocks.

Just because you can find a way to chorus fruit into the farm, does NOT make it okay for you to be there. If there is no door and there is no invitation or stairs to that spot... Then any regular player should and will, assume that you are raiding the farm, raiding the redstone sorter, or just raiding the toolbox of the poor shlob who made the farm or is doing the upkeep for it.

If you want more farms with easy to get materials, then you need to respect the idea behind the public farm. Locks only keep out the honest folks, any chance we can get a few subzones for the Wild? Maybe make a no-access area stronger than walls?? And maybe a no-kill method for named entities at those farms?

I am getting just a bit cynical after this much cleaning up, after those that don't bother to think about it.

Don't blame you for getting cynical. Regularly I do the rounds of public crop and tree farms that people are allowed to access and so often fail to replant or just take everything. Unfortunately there is no way to know who it is that takes things and does not replant is there?

in my perspective, it's bad faith player (Griefers) for those who try to ruin other's game session by any ways, using game mechanic. Griefering include exploit bug, spills toxic into chat or voice chat, mob camping (beat them at spawn), vandalism each other's structures (reversing their progress), trying to make other player discomfort.
Griefering is bannable or punishable in many server, but some allow this, as part of gameplay

It sucks that you've had to spend extra time to keep the farm(s) running. I hope a solution can be found.

Trespassing can be annoying but IMO isn't on par with griefing. Griefing is a ban, and I wouldn't want someone banned for JUST trespassing alone. But it sounds like you're dealing with something beyond that...stealing or being an nuisance? That I can see worthy of moderator action.

Are there many players building or changing things? It's not just the same person coming back, right? Banning the players probably won't help you if it's a new player each time. I would look for a solution that better prevents the unwanted behavior in the first place. I don't know what that solution is...

Lastly, it can help if you assume the player is a pure hearted illiterate 5-year-old. They want to do good and they just need direction.

Good luck with your farms!

An active player who is actively building towards an area who has over 3 years of derelict player inactivity and or abuse before anti-grief should be able to be reclaimed by active members. I see it way too often along frontier outposts. To say to put your best foot forward of an "active" membership in EMC and see that these protected lands being abused as they are portrayed, is a bad look among the community and who enforce the rules.

I agree if the build is in good shape and wasn't defaced from the original, should be kept. That's where the grey area comes to many members of the community. What is, "griefed beyond repair?". Let's set what I initially said in my first sentence and not have this grey area we have now. Only if the player in question has the permanent protection or active supportership shall not have this rule to have these builds removed.

Yes, I made references to 'trespassers with an intent to steal' not just look around. And 5 year-olds are annoying, but rarely are they repeat offenders and troublemakers to all. Generally, they are a nuisance and are apologetic when it is discussed. We do have to make sure not to be too harsh on them, as we dont want to scare them off of the server entirely. Super delicate balance there.

But if presented with evidence of guilty-thoughts and hiding their actions and general sneaking-around'edness, then I feel that there is a need for the 'protected subzone' to keep thieves out. But only honest men are kept out by a lock They will always find a way. Just super irritated by this problem, as I might have mentioned.

Repairing and reclaiming Frontier areas comes into such a huge, huge grey area on emc. We want it to look good, but we want it to always be there. There has to be a thought to the middle - the repairing without malice of using /npmode (no protect mode) seems to be the best plan at the moment. If some staff guidance was lent to the volunteers of such teams: perhaps this would endeavor to steer clear of actual grief intent? Could formation of teams with Captains and co-ordination of cleanup efforts be conducted without fear of some type of rule-enforcement backfiring on the do-gooders? And thus have safe clean-up efforts within the rules?

These Grey, Gray, Super Shades of Greay-ness Areas that are the Frontier Spawn Areas

Can we even make such teams?

The way I see it is this. No build is "derelict" unless it's in Town. There is no "age" on blocks. It just adds to the landscape. I don't care if someone hasn't been on in 10 years and you like their spot or want to "fix it". Move on. There's soooooo much map to claim as your own. Leave it be.

What to do if someone builds on your outpost AFTER you claimed it? That is where I believe staff would come in and only then. Just my two cents.

If anyone does clean-up teams (it has been tried before) I'm in.

But I don't touch structures or placed blocks unless I talk to the original builder, just creeper holes and floating trees and remove the old empty holiday and feast chests, but that alone makes an area so much nicer. I try and think of all the old blocks and builds as archaeological remnants.

I do feel like terrain repair is better being a complete fill of holes with some stone or cobble underneath if necessary. I'm not a fan of a single layer of dirt over a void because a creeper blowing up could easily kill someone if they're standing there. I also don't like protected grass blocks, torches etc in areas that people are repairing but not building in or taking any ownership of because it's limiting for other players. It's gratifying to return an area to a natural state and later see someone has built there or used it.

Some areas of the frontier are so apocalyptic looking though and when it's right by spawn it is a shame. I don't know what the solution would be though.

We've asked for it before, but a permanent onscreen indicator of whether or not buildmode and noprotectmode are on or off would help a lot.

Years ago myself and another came across a build in the nether. All the info we could find (via locked chests or signs) pointed to a player that had been derelict for over a year. After contacting a mob about it, they said we could continue building on to this area. They also said should this person return, we were to hand it all back over. They did infact return and we turned it over. Thinking back now, I don't know how I would feel if it was something of mine. This scenario turned out fine because the person liked what we did and even said we could share. But this would not always be the case.

Personally I think unless the person says you can build there, it should be left alone. Sure they never return but if they do it can cause problems which no one needs.

as someone who takes long breaks from minecraft this is how i think. people are welcome to message me if they find my stuff (many have) i check the website alot more than in game. but if i came back and found someone just building in the midst of my island i would be quite heated

Frontier Spawns are now referred to as Apocalypse Center, North, etc 😂. The first 1k of every spawn, no wonder new player wonder if we have pvp and raiding allowed out there.

Time for a direct begging of Chicken for the on-screen build indicator! Npmode/Bmode/Normal (stoplight colors? Something)

I think my biggest concern is how much management of dated structures and their damage turns into micromanagement? I have servers I manage in another survival block building game. If players don't use block protection, it's on them if things get destroyed THOUGH we immediately seek out the griefer and give em the perm boot. Complaining about half cut down trees and creeper holes though? My team would be spending hours on reports. My approach has always been that if someone wants to terraform, public unclaimed land, then go right on ahead, but don't complain about it. I mean, why repair the waste? I really don't understand this concept at all since it will get reset.

I do understand the desire to clean up the areas around spawn points in the wilds and keep them presentable. I mean, there are builds there from before the rules were set up and what not. Still, new players assume griefing is allowed because they breeze through the tutorial, don't read the manual (I mean, it's a lot of info to take in and most peeps just want to start playing). I doubt it will make a difference that the area has been cleaned up and restored as has been lamented already in this thread.

This is a block destroying game. While it would be nice if other players were more considerate of not damaging the terrains, this wholly unrealistic. I think this thread is really about putting limits on how long a player can be absent before they lose their stuff and land,. Let's just focus on that and not cloud it up with an HOA-style management system that will honestly deter players from all the negativity it will cause between the community towards one another.

I have restored damaged structures and land in the past, near Frontier world spawns, without the old OG builder's consent. In fact, moderators helped out to my request in removing protection from specific blocks.

Community reception was very positive; nobody complained to me directly over such executed actions. They were justified by the super-long absence of their OG creators. Some public regions I renovated include an ice tower and a terracotta fort on SMP8, as well as several buildings designed after end cities or strongholds to mark the paths to End portals across the server network. I established a sorta famous name on EMC through these efforts alongside numerous public farms of high production value. They compelled one person to question if I was an architecture student (in reality, my artistic skills are a synthesis of countless Minecraft videos and other relatable online content). Another individual with the initials SL compared me to an un-deceptive fairy!

If you see any disruptive alternations to my builds today (ex: dirt scaffolding), you have my consent to call someone to help such remove blocks not protected under my MC username.