[Suggestion] Illegal Bumping (New Auction Rule)

Discussion in 'Suggestion Box Archives' started by Crazy1800, Apr 29, 2013.


What do you think?

Good idea 7 vote(s) 50.0%
Bad idea 7 vote(s) 50.0%
  1. Hey guys!

    So I've seen it happen a lot, and it's happened to me a lot, where people bump before their 3 hours are up. Well ok, that happens and the person usually gets a slap on the wrist if it's reported. The problem I have isn't with the random bumps under 3 hours, it's when they illegally bump it around an hour before someone would win and the person gets outbid.

    Bob is hosting an auction for a sandwich. Auction ends 24 hours after last valid bid.
    Fred bids 10 rupees at 9:00 A.M
    Bob bumps it a few times. Nobody is bidding.
    Bob bumps at 7:00 A.M the next morning.
    Again, no bids.
    Bob bumps at 8:00 A.M saying "Fred wins this in an hour! It's a steal at this price!"
    Someone bids.

    The person MAY have just stumbled onto the auction, but I find it much more likely that they saw it in recent threads and bid. So now Fred doesn't get his sandwich because Bob broke the rules.

    Bob = slap on the wrist
    Fred = Did nothing wrong, lost auction because of Bob
    Random guy = Did nothing wrong either, but bid on an illegally bumped auction.

    What I think is that if Fred reports that to a moderator, the moderator can view the thread, and based on their own judgment can decide whether or not random guy wins or Fred wins. If no report is filed, the new guy wins the auction. This is just because it's so annoying, and even if a moderator deletes the post someone may have seen it. They profit off breaking the rules.

    I think that if someone illegally bumps it within 3 hours of the person winning, that the general rule is that the person who was winning wins it then.

    'nother scenario:

    Bob hosts an auction for a double chest of sponge.
    Fred bids 100,000.
    Auction ends in 4 hours.
    Bob bumps it.
    Auction ends in 2 hours.
    Bob bumps it again.
    Someone bids.
    Fred wins because that person bid after an illegal bump.

    I know people may disagree with this, but it's so freaking annoying. Some times it's like a 48 hour after last valid bid, someone bids after an illegal bump, then you outbid them again and they don't bid anymore. Great, 96 hours wasted waiting for the item.

    It's annoying for the person who should have won the auction. The person who holds the auction profits off breaking the rules. It's just not really fair.

    Again, I don't think it should matter unless someone reports it to a moderator, and if they do then everyone involved would be expected to cooperate. If it's someone who frequently is on auctions then they're more likely to have stumbled on it in the auction forum then someone who saw it on recent threads, so that is also why it's up to a staff members own discretion.

    Thanks for reading guys :D
  2. I do like it, although it maybe wouldn't be fair for the last person that had bid last.
    jacob5089, 607 and Crazy1800 like this.
  3. The person who bids last doesn't lose nearly as much as the person who bid prior to them. That's another reason why it's up to a moderator on what happens
    jacob5089 and marknaaijer like this.
  4. These are annoying but the cases of:

    Bob hosts auction. Ends 24hrs after last bid.
    -2 weeks later-


    Bob is hosting an auction for a dc of potatoes. Auction ends after 24 hours.
    Fred bids 10 rupees at 9:00 A.M
    Bob bumps it a few times. Nobody is bidding.
    Bob bumps at 7:00 A.M the next morning.
    Again, no bids.
    Bob leaves the thread alone.
    23hr 59min mark someone bids and wins.


    Holds auction.
    Gets three bids and has to wait 3 hours.
    Get bids before able to bump. Have to AFK.
    Sits on second page for hours with no bids.
    Bumps and gets no bids.
    Auction ends.

    Make me want to smash stuff.
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  5. Tru dis, although it is very rarely I absolutely need what im bidding on so most of the time I wont care.
    But per say I bid on a DC of logs, I dont need them, but i usually do. So if I were outbidded there i would be kinda mad to lose it.
    jacob5089 likes this.
  6. Everything must have elementanimation GIFs!
  7. this is why you should do 24 hours after last bid not 24 hours after start that means no one really loses out
  8. Whoops, I hit "Bad idea" ignore that one, good idea.
  9. I think any scenerio where a moderator determines that an auction goes to one person instead of another is going to cause problems.

    What about when random person X comes in and posts, "HAI GUYZ! That's an awful lot of Potatoes!", then doesn't bid? In this case it wasn't the fault of the auctioneer or any of the bidders that the thread was bumped so how could the winner be decided in a fair way? This is the most annoying auction behavior to me. It hasn't been too bad lately, but there are a few people here who do it habitually and I sometimes Report them, but the behavior never seems to be punished.

    I also have seen where someone bids then regrets it and starts bumping the thread. I see a lot of friend bids too.

    In regards to auctioneers, we already have a bump policy. It just needs to be enforced consistently. I think it isn't enforced because the penalty is sort of harsh with no in between. Maybe if you are warned three times you should be banned from the Forums for a month instead of permanently. I've maybe seen a handful of people banished from the Forums, and never for abusing the Auctions.

    On the bidding side, I occassionally bid on a thread just so I can make a comment, and that's the way it should be. I'd like to see anyone who posts a non-relevant comment in a thread be forced into the next bid increment. I think after someone won something they didn't want or couldn't afford a few times, they would learn to zip it.

    That's actually good strategy. I never touch those types of auctions early on. I just click "Watch Thread" and make a mental note to check it before it ends.

    I think most people who abuse posting in Auctions just aren't being smart and observant. Posting, "Mr. X in the lead!", immediately after Mr. X's bid is a wasted opportunity to me, since Mr. X's bid WAS a bump, but it's probably the most common example that happens. I think it's usually the case that that person needs to be educated rather than punished.

    I've been pretty happy with most of the auctions I've held. I try to initially post mine when the Forum is busy. After someone bids, I like to wait until the Forum is busy again before I acknowledge it with a, "Thanks for the bid.", or whatever.

    I sometimes hit it in the early morning if I see some Australian activity in other threads. Other than that early evening seems best for me, since it catches the European and US players.

    If I am going to "Like" bids, I wait awhile so that those people see the Alerts and are drawn back into the thread to maybe see that other people have outbid them.
    Crazy1800 and HylianNinja like this.
  10. I'm sorry, I forgot to add that part to the scenario, but it was 24 hours after the last bid.
    EMC has moderators because they want their judgement. That's why SYSTEM only does kicks and maybe some bans occasionally (I haven't seen it happen.) There wouldn't be a fair way other than that to implement this.
    Guy sees auction thread bumped in recent threads.
    It was an illegal bump and the auction ends soon.
    He bids.
    The guy before says "Hey, I should have won this but he broke the rules"
    The other guy can just say "I found this on the auction thread, so it doesn't really matter"

    EMC chooses the moderators because they trust their judgment, so I don't see why that would be any different here. Some toes may be stepped on, but that happens.


    There's not much you can do to people like that, which is why I agree with your post here -
    If someone comments and it's irrelevant, then it should count as a bid.

    Friend bids are more difficult to catch, but after a while it becomes very apparent if this guy who is your friend keeps winning your auctions, but that's not really relevant to this suggestion.

    This is just for one illegal bump that changes the outcome of the auction. The only person penalized for it is the bidder, which isn't fair. So I'm just suggesting that just the final bump be monitored IF it's reported by the player.

    If Fred from my example decided he didn't want the sandwich, then he could report the fact that it was illegally bumped or just let someone else notice it. If it's a big auction, and your about to win though, it's really annoying because multiple people might start bidding and then your chance is getting even lower.

    I apologize if this seems condescending at all. I'm just trying to clarify the point of this suggestion a little more.

    It's not really related to the occasional random bump. Just the last one when it breaks the rules.
  11. I find it rude and uncalled for to wait the 24hrs and then bid to win right at the last second. It just feels like it's cheating the person out of the items.

    Yeah...24hrs after last bid: http://empireminecraft.com/threads/auction-diamond-membership-for-one-month.24112/page-5#post-467666 -2 Week Auction that never leaves the front page-
    jkjkjk182 likes this.
  12. Rude of who? An auction that ends at a designated time always seems to get bids up front from people who didn't read the first post clearly, then tapers off and gets a final flurry of activity just before the end. It's the auctioneeer that makes the rules that cause that. I wouldn't blame the bidders for it.

    I do understand how it feels though.
  13. Well, I guess I think it rude since I've heard people talk about it before like "Zomg that auction ends at midnight, I'm gonna come in and bomb it at the last second so I win LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!" But yeah, it seems like cheating someone out of stuff to do that.

  14. Did I miss the part where we appointed an omnipotent moderator?
    I give you this example.

    Joe posts an auction of Diamonds.
    Auction ends 24 hours after last valid bid.
    Larry bids 1 gazillion rupees.
    Joe bumps every three hours, but no one else has a gazillion rupees to counter bid.
    At hour 23, Joe bumps saying "I'm gonna be rich......Bump-izle"
    10 minutes later, I wake up and log on EMC.
    I try to craft a shovel, but funny thin g is, I am out of diamonds, Noooooooo.
    Wait, I think I remember an auction for diamonds, so I search in the auction sub forum and find it after viewing all of the first two auction pages.
    Conveniently, I happen to have enough rupees so I bid and win.
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    I then get my stuff taken away because Franky cried reports the bump to a moderator.

    You should punish the bumping infraction of course, but you can’t punish the bidders. Illegal bump or not, the auction wasn’t over and anyone can bid up to the ending. You have no true way of knowing if that bump even caused someone else to bid. And honestly, you didn't loose the auction because of it, you still have a renewed clock to counter bid.
    Pab10S likes this.
  15. I already have acknowledged there is no way for a moderator to truly know if the person found the thread because of the bump of if they actually found it on the forums. This is why it's up to a moderators discretion. I never implied they were "Omnipotent." As an active member, you should know that the reason EMC has moderators instead of a automatic system is so they can properly evaluate a situation and do as they see fit.

    So no, I can't prove that you went onto the forums instead of the recent forums list, but you have said "You should punish the bumping infraction of course, but you can't punish the bidders." People who bump frequently tend to get chastised quickly and get on with it. They bump again and it's another slap on the wrist. Again and sometimes it's still just a warning. So instead of really being punished, he profits because of that bump.

    If you consider Franky reporting to a moderator unfair to you because you posted a valid bid, think of how Franky would feel since it wasn't a valid bump. He's been waiting 23 hours, and since Joe bumped it early there is about a very large chance that you had found it on the recent forums list.

    Here's a quote from Margaritte on another auction:

    With this auction it was a short time, but he hosted 3 of the same auction and she'd contributed in one (The one where she referenced Death.)
    Even though not all auctions are 5 hour limits, had that person bumped it illegally Margaritte would have noticed, and she could have outbid me or death, and since it was late at night and a 5 hour end time we could have lost because it was bumped early.
    Margaritte is an active bidder in auctions, yet she didn't notice this because the auction wasn't bumped. I'm positive that the majority of bids really come from people seeing "AUCTION [--------]" On the recent threads list, hence the reason people bump so frequently.
    I do understand what you're saying, and yeah, it would suck for you if it was a valid bid, but it would suck more for Franky. I get that, like you you said, there is no way of proving that.
    On the punishment scale, people aren't particularly worried (Or it at least appears like this) of being blacklisted. It's not a common thing, so people aren't going to think about it that much and debate whether or not it's too early to bump. "If it is, I'll just get talked to real fast.
    If a mod looks at the auction because Franky reported it and decides that yeah, Franky deserved this, then it'll spread a message to other auctioners. "Oh if I bump this too soon I could lose out on the money."
    If you were going to find the auction in the forums, he wouldn't have needed to bump it, so not only was it illegal but also unnecessary.
  16. That reminds me of a certian pig that squeals when you smash him against a wall.......
    kevdudeman likes this.

  17. You're right, they could have found it because of the bump, but they also could not have. That is my point, there is no discretion when it comes to unknowns. Facts > Feelings I know this is a stretch, but would you go to a real auction and ask the auctioneer to stop his little garbledemumlinating thing he is doing? It's all just filler. Bumping can and may have an effect on the outcome of an auction but it can't really be monitored, quantified, calculated, proven.... I thought that the rules surrounding bumping were more geared to that fact that it becomes excessive to the point of spamming, not because it could hypothetically affect the outcome of an auction.
    If you feel like it bothers you that bad, don't bid on auctions. Something can always happen that will cause you to be outbid or not win an auction. For example, maybe we should ban rupee giveaways for hitting set number of members because then someone now has more money and can afford to outbid someone else. That is not fair right, if only Franky's little brother didn't join EMC, I could have one that DC of taco meat. Or, let's say Herman's little brother "Hacked his Account" (that he left logged in) and faked a bid on an auction (we know this because Herman was nice enough to post a "Help Me" thread about being hacked), which in turn caused someone else to see it and also bid. Do you feel that you should be able to have that investigated and have the auction changed to were you won because of Herman's brother?
    I'm getting carried away , sorry. My point is that bumping may have an impact, but it is irrelevant. There are predetermined times set, be it after the last valid bid or from the OP. Heck, all one has to do is set their end time to 24 hours and 10 minutes and then they can legally bump 10 minutes before the close of the auctions. How does that make you feel? Whatever happens, happens. You being upset because you got outbid, no matter what the reason, should not take away from or penalize the person who outbid you. Again, I can't stress this enough, you being outbid does not cause you to lose, you not counter bidding high enough that no one outbids you causes you to lose. And I understand that you "Could have" won it for a cheaper amount, but you "Could have" not seen the auction in the first place if the same OPer didn't untimely bump it in the first place.

    Is Margaritte your alt? Do you have cameras in her house to monitor her every move? Do you have irrevocable proof that she missed it because the auction wasn't bumped? To me, by her quote, it looks like she said "Come home and it's all over" so maybe it wouldn't have mattered at all. Maybe she was upset that the person set 5 hour end times and she wasn't by a computer for five hours and missed it. Again, who cares, bumping is one thing out of endless possibilities that could affect someone either seeing or choosing to bid on an auction.

    There are always going to be something that doesn’t make someone else happy with an auction. I think the only way around it is to go to a fully automated system. My proposal is that when someone wants to auction something, they put it into a "Auction Vault" and then fills out the base auction information in a premade form on the site. When they hit submit, it locks the "Auction Vault" and it creates the OP. After that, each member clicks a bid button on the OP that pulls up a window with a box to type in your bid, conveniently always set to the minimum bid increase and a submit button. The OP would also include a link to a post relating to the auction were people could ask questions about pickup and any other queries. (Conveniently, this post could expire or erase 48 hours after the auction ends.)

    I know it’s not a lot of details, they are all in my head, but I think it wouldn't be hard to do, as well as think it would take away almost every issue surrounding auctions.

    1. bidding without enough rupees to cover and invalid bids (it would temp remove those rupees when you bid and only allow a bid if you have that many) oh and maybe a warning if you bid lets say over 110% of the previous bid

    2. The only thing visable on the actual auction post would be the OP and bids, no comments or bumps what so ever because there would be no way to post on it. (That is what the sub post is for)

    3. The auctioneer would be paid immediately at the close of the auction and items would be delivered to a temporary "Auction Won" vault page of the winner. (who would be notified when they logged in game the first time after winning)
  18. This is in no way about me being upset because someone is outbid. It's the fact that people bump their auction illegally and that changes the outcome, and they aren't penalized at all. The person who outbid them because of the bump isn't really affected. It's like bidding when the auction is already over. Oh well.

    Margaritte participated in one of the auctions, so she did know it was going. Not to mention it was 5 hours after the last valid bid, so that could range from just 5 hours to plenty of time. In the case of that quote, it was 10 hours long. So she may have been working all day on a Sunday, but I find that rather unlikely.

    She stated she didn't see the auction, and anyone can tell she's an active auction bidder if they participate in auctions. In the past week I've probably bid against her 5 times until we talked about splitting them.

    I do like your suggestion for a "Auction Vault" as that helps solve plenty of problems. The majority of what you said before quoting me about Margaritte makes me think that you think I'm upset about being outbid. I don't mind that. I like auctions because there is a potential for great deals, or just getting something more expensive in quantity. I understand completely how anyone has the right to bid, but the reason I'm suggesting this is not only because the person who SHOULD have one is kind of jipped because of an illegal bump, the person holding the auction benefits. I don't remember the specifics, but I was talking to my brother about an auction earlier in the summer where I was about to win, someone illegally bumped it, and then the price skyrocketed. He got nearly 50k more because he broke the rules.

    People profiting off that is my problem. So maybe do you end up bidding normally, but my example using Margaritte is that even people who frequently bid in auctions don't scan the forum. People bump their threads not so it raises in the auction thread, but so it goes to the recently active threads list. Usually there's only half a page on community auctions that are active, so bumping really isn't necessary. You're post is always going to be seen by people looking. If someone constantly is bumping it and nobody bids, but they bump it illegally right before it ends, then they most likely found it on recent threads list.

    This isn't to punish a bidder. It's punishing the auction holder. He broke the rules so he deals with the consequence. Most auctions end 24 hours after the last valid bid. I know this isn't the case all the time, but if someone wants to win the auction then it's improbable that someone will decide "I need this diamond for my shovel", go to the auction thread, and bid within an hour of someone winning AFTER someone had already illegally bumped it.

    It's possible, but that isn't going to happen enough times to justify letting people continue doing this.
  19. I believe the main aim of the rule on bumping is so the same auction or post is not kept on the main list on the home page constantly , but gives other player post a chance to be seen.