Gender Identity/Sexual Preference Discussion

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by Gawadrolt, Aug 30, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Gender Identity has been quite the mainstream topic lately. In this thread I hope that we can discuss and answer some questions on Gender Identity.

    1. GID(Gender Identity Disorder) is a clinical disorder, also known as Gender Dysphoria, as defined by DSM-IV-TR.

    This is a very widely debated publication as a large portion of the disorders clinically described in it are in no way measurable. In fact Attention Deficit Disorder is often referred to in the psychiatric community as a chemical imbalance in the brain and has been for YEARS. Yet, today that idea is strayed from because of the obvious flaw in such a diagnosis. There is NO way to test for that chemical imbalance. As shown in the article linked references of over 20 years must be found to make such a claim. The point being that DSM-IV-TR and in fact many of the psychiatric publications used to diagnose and treat mental disorders or neurological disorders are continuously evolving and like all fields of science are more often wrong than they are right.

    However lets look at how it DEFINES GID. Through two pages of description it still seems to me to be less than definitive and more objective.

    If you scroll down to the next page you will see how it is diagnosed. Two factors: identification and impairment in social, occupational or "other important areas of functioning."

    Again, it seems more objective than definitive as the diagnosis relies solely on the expression of the subject being diagnosed on both factors that are necessary to diagnose GID.

    My question here is: Is this what you might consider a disorder? The only way to diagnose it is to trust the claims of the subject. Misdiagnosis of such a disorder would require only the desire of the subject to be diagnosed in such a way, whether they truly identify as the opposite sex or not they can claim they do. Here you run in to quite a few problems.

    So, is it a disorder and what is gained by diagnosing someone with GID? Is it beneficial to the diagnosed subject to be told that their identity is a mental condition? If you scroll down to the end of page 5 "Gender Identity Disorder" subsection "Course" It shows that many children that receive Gender Reassignment surgery(often children born with both or no genitalia or hormonal imbalances that resemble the opposite sex of genitalia which they possess) often no longer identify themselves as having GID. This is delving into the realm of self diagnosis although seeing an improvement into the mental health of someone with a physical condition is definitely something to be praised. Being how vague the document is its hard to tell if the numbers are exclusive or inclusive to those that have no physical manifestation of GID but only a mental manifestation.

    Before moving on to the next point I would like to point out that Hysteria was once considered a psychological condition that afflicted women and the diagnosis was not that of the desire of the subject but the objective perception of the "psychiatrist" or demonologist(priest?)... yeah about that. Interestingly in that article:
    these diseases seems to be a factor linked with social “westernization”

    2. Independent of how one identifies their own gender but venturing into ones sexual preference in the gender of their partner: In the LBGT (Lesbian, Bisexual, Gay, Transexual) community "GENERALLY" speaking (I personally know two people that hate that this is a thing, one that is transexual and another that is lesbian) there is an overwhelming desire to identify their sexual preference as being something that is not of their choosing. Does this not victimize the LBGT community? I personally would like to think that my own sexual PREFERENCE is of my choosing and not something that I have no say in.

    Some claim that it is a congenital phenomena, others just that it is a mental/neurological phenomena. I tend to believe that it is a mental phenomena but that doesn't mean that it is either a conscious decision or one that is... well what would you call it the other way? Subconscious instinct?

    I have known many people that have identified one way and later the another, from heterosexual to homosexual, from homosexual and heterosexual to bisexual, from homosexual to heterosexual. There are other combinations that could be made but these are instances in which I am personally familiar with.

    So the second thing is whether or not sexual preference is indeed a preference or if it is something that is uncontrollable "fate" if you will. I think it is obvious that events throughout your life can influence your sexual preference, as all too often peoples preferences in this area of their life change, but is there some default preference for which you have no control over, whether it be hetero, homo or bi sexual.

    Disclaimer: There is a whole encyclopedia of gender identity and sexual preference categories and subcategories. I did not outline every single possible preference or identity within this writing but think I have made comprehensible the point of the matter.

    As stated elsewhere on the forums: I understand that there are many people that want no part in this discussion or believe that preferences or identities that do not align with their own notions of what they believe should be the "right" or "correct" however you want to put it way. This conversation I suppose isn't for those people as it is a discussion of this topic which will not cease because of preconceived notions about these topics, be it social stigma, religious dogma or personal fear. I don't know if I worded all that correctly but you know what I am talking about :p
    Lance2013 likes this.
  2. As far as a similarity in homosexual/heterosexual brain differences: This can't be scientifically backed in any way as sexual preference often changes, sometimes many times, throughout one's life. Does that mean that some people have brains that are "undulating" for lack of a better word? It is PURELY conjecture in an attempt to grasp at straws. There is zero scientific evidence, as far as I know, that sexual preference is the result of a congenital effect. If there is anything remotely close to something that could possibly even resemble evidence that it is a congenital effect it would be huge news and I would LOVE to know :D

    A untested hypothesis that is impossible to apply the scientific method to conclude that " hemispheres of the brain, and the other that focuses primarily on the amygdala" correlate to a corporeal idea would be absolutely impossible as you can not quantify an idea. You can only speculate on it in faith.

    A lot of what is put on by schools and media "washington post/bbc news" is labeled "science" when science is the product of the scientific method. In fact in both countries that host the washington post and BBC news(to what someone referenced as their sources) there are legal codes via the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) that expressly protect both corporations from any responsibility to publish truth in any manner of the word.

    If you go back to the scientific method on ALMOST every claim made in schools AND the media you will find there is no way to arrive at the conclusion they come to because there is no way to "weed out" the variables in order to get a remotely accurate test that would provide any quantitative data. So... what I'm saying is that most of what we call "science" is more opinion than it is science. Science as I understand it is things you can prove through testing.

    As far as I can tell there is only one person that ever suggested the correlation between brain composition and sexual orientation and I can't find where that conclusion was based on any test whatsoever. Credit given to Swaab D F. I don't have his book or know what it was that he referenced to come to that conclusion. The book "We are our brains" seems to be where this stemmed from.
    Lance2013 and DH32 like this.
  3. I Would like to point out that the LGBT is there to help, they help make rights, and allow us to be able to be who we are. Without them, there would be so many people that would be "Dead" due to stuff they stop.

    Also As a Trans myself, I have my own thread, And i would like to see the site you got this from.
    EquableHook, ThaKloned and Dj__Krazy like this.
  4. I linked all the sources in the OP. I didn't link sources fo the second post. I didn't know there was a LGBT organization I thought it was just a term to refer to those clasifications of sexual preference/identity. Would you mind linking the organization you are referring to?
  5. Well there are many branches, the one near me is... (card is at my other house)


    There are some,

    And then there are also ones like...

    Maybe you should do some research before you make false statements......
    ThaKloned and Dj__Krazy like this.
  6. This thread just sounds like a poorly masked, condescending and backhanded way of telling LGBT people that it's their choice and that it's an unproven "untested hypothesis" that they have a biological disorder.

    Just the other day the OP, Gawadrolt also said, "I would like to point out that the clinical diagnosis for GID when applied to anything else woudlnt be one of a disorder but an opinion that someone is what they claim they want to be."

    Gawadrolt also stated in another thread that talking about this subject was turning the EMC forum into a "playground for sexual propaganda" and then followed that up by saying discussing these issues was hurting the well-being of the community as a whole and should not be discussed at all on the EMC forums because of the children so I think it's pretty obvious where Gawadrolt stands on this issue. Not to mention, it's somewhat ironic to given those past statements make a whole new thread to talk about it.

    I don't believe Google can turn people into medical experts, certified biologists, neurologists or experts on basically any subject.
  7. I believe that people can and will do whatever they want to be happy. I do not care if a man likes a man, a woman likes a woman, etc., but I think that when they petition to make the American flag the Blue field with a rainbow, I believe that is taking this entire thing a step too far.
  8. That petition to make the American flag a rainbow was originally cited from here:

    For anyone who doesn't follow or didn't notice their other comical headlines, it's a satirical news site like The Daily Currant, National News, The Onion and many others. While The Onion is more over the top and obvious, these other sites are often responsible for people on social media, Facebook and the internet in general telling you that you need to join them in preparing for the next civil war. Notallowedto tends to mask their trolling. They also claim that Arnold Schwarzenegger just died. He did not.
    SoulPunisher, Spiritress and whatkom like this.
  9. I just like to let people do what they want. If that's being with their same gender, cool, if they like being with the opposite gender, cool.
    blazedeath8 likes this.
  10. Wow gawadrolt uust be bored is the only response I can come up with
    Spiritress and ChamelonNYC like this.
  11. I am a straight male. I don't feel that being straight was a choice that I made, I have always been, and I'm sure I couldn't just change my mind about it. I imagine that any other sexual preference happens in a similar way.

    The field of psyc it for people seeking treatment for a condition. If you are gay and happy with that, then you hardly need psyc help for that. If you are gay and want to be straight or are unhappy with how it plays out in your life, then you might see a psyc doctor. The psyc doc doesn't declare you to be 'gay' rather classifies the condition as they see it and discusses known 'treatment' options. There might be pills that alter sexual perception for people who don't want to be gay, I don't know, but if that is what someone is looking for, the psyc doc would likely offer them.

    Religion is a whole different ball game. 'Gay' is considered 'bad' in many traditional churches. I feel badly for people born into that type of mess where family or friends are convinced that they are doing something evil by being themselves. I don't really think it's healthy to have to lie about something like that.

    There are good doctors and bad doctors, good churches and bad, and good people and bad. I hope that you will all find acceptance in your lives for people who are different. That is all.
  12. There have been several well thought out and articulate responses in here. Let's keep it clean and friendly.

    There is several LGBT people in EMC some that are "out" with it and some that are not. I ask you all to think of everyone who may read this thread and their feelings. We can all be insesitive to others at times in our passion and beliefs. Take a moment to read what you respond and ask yourself. Will this cause me to lose a friend I didn't know it would bother ? Will it cause someone who may already be feeling down to feel even worse.

    If anyone wants to talk either in game or on forums you know how to get ahold of me.

  13. All true but gawa has raised many valid claims. It seems to me if people get upset when you ask questions and counter claims, and then they talk about being upset more then countering the counter it makes me wonder if there is all that evidence that they say there is. I mean the thread went out about the disorder thing and how they have no choice. Gawa said that the science behind it could not support that claims. And rather then getting up more science articles to back up your claim you go and attack Gawa personaly. Saying things like "It is pretty obvious how gawa stands on this issue". What has that got to do with anything. So he stands on this issue. No matter what gawa believes that does not disprove anything he said.
    Gawadrolt likes this.

  14. I'm not sure you quoted the right person. I have not attacked or defended anyone. All I asked was that it was kept polite.
    Gawadrolt, whatkom and Penguinub like this.
  15. My bad. Only part of that was about you. Most of it was about the other people to replied to this thread. I should have split the reply.
    Gawadrolt likes this.

  16. Or what you could do is not attack people who are discussing things. Let them respond how they will. Gawa doesn't need you to fight his battles.

    People get upset at the way it's worded. Rudeness will not be tolerated.

    Back on topic now.
    Spiritress and finch_rocks_1 like this.
  17. lol you get upset about topic..
    The main topic was about the Gender Disorder. Yet the majority of the posts had nothing to do with it. Is there a EMC rule saying backing up your freind when all the people in the forum are all against him? There was maybe on post on topic. If you go after me go after the gay american flag people. That has nothing to do with it.
  18. I'd think that are a lot more than seven :p

    My view on this whole discussion: If you're straight, you're straight. If you're gay, you're gay. If you don't identify as the gender you were born with, you don't identify as the gender you were born with. Nobody else but you should care about any of that. If other people don't like you for it, screw them. Don't care what they think, don't listen to those people - you have the right to be who you want, and to love who you want. Other people, religion, 'biology', have no say in that (unless its for the betterment of a free society ofc lol).

    On being part of the LGBT community by choice: I partially agree. I was born a straight male - I didn't have a choice in that. Gay people are born gay. They don't have a choice in that. Whether they choose to... 'excercise' it (its 4AM and I couldn't think of the correct phrase, so shaddup) - they have a choice in that. I'd imagine the idea of intimately kissing the opposite sex is as 'repulsive' to them as doing that to a person of the same sex is to a straight person... if that made any sense at all...

    I'm going to shut up now.
    Penguinub and Spiritress like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.