abandoned or half destroyed structures not in use.

Discussion in 'Wilderness Frontier' started by seatwig, Jun 18, 2016.

  1. Is there anyway we can get rid of these structures that are clearly abandoned or half destroyed out in the frontier. smp6 is plastered with them and the year that I have been playing on this server not one has been reclaimed.
    M4ster_M1ner and ShelLuser like this.
  2. I wish you could get a structure removal approval in the frontier, they check to see if the building serves purpose, if the player is derelict or if anyone else lives there
  3. Even if it looks like no one is using it, does not mean much, as the player could be away and unable to get on emc for any reason.

    Please ask a staff member to verify that each one you want to take down is okay do to so.
    Sgt_Pepper4 and ShelLuser like this.
  4. There are also officially Registered Frontiers in smp6 by people whom might not be able to play everyday..
  5. If the build is easy enough to figure out, you could always patch it up so that it is not such an eyesore. Consider it like you are mowing your neighbor's grass while they are away on vacation or something. This is not a suggestion to use dirt to fix a wooden structure or maybe a villager building. In most cases you should be able to determine the correct materials needed to repair a build. If they are, however, too far gone and is only a few pieces here and there, and you cannot figure out what it was, then I suppose there is not much left to do, but wait on the owner to return or possibly have staff intervene some way or another. The idea fBuilderS proposed that staff could look into the possible usage and ownership activity sounds like a good idea at face value, but I am not sure if staff would be provided with enough information on something such as this to confidently deem a structure abandoned. This sounds like an interesting inquiry, and I look forward to see where it leads. Good Luck.
    ESSELEM, autumnrain26 and ShelLuser like this.
  6. Where exactly are those structures located? Are we talking about builds which sit relatively close around the spawn area, or are we talking about stuff further out?

    The main problem is that Frontier is a non-resetting world, meaning that everything we do there is permanent. And touching something which isn't yours without permission is never allowed because that could be considered griefing.

    I have no idea about the builds further out, also because it'll be hard to determine if they're merely sporadic individual builds or if the area is actually part of an established outpost. Worse yet: what if the player intended to make the area look this way?

    But I can't help wonder if there isn't anything we can do about the spawn area.

    Now; the rules to establish an outpost are relatively easy: you need to be 5000 blocks away from all EMC outposts and you also need to be 3000 blocks away from visible player builds. Here's the thing: this also implies that the spawn area, up to 5000 blocks out, can never be used for an established outpost.

    So maybe it would be possible to suggest a rules addition which allows players to repair the spawn area up to 2000 blocks out from the outpost. Where the definition of repairing should be very well defined. For example: "Players may repair structures by placing blocks which make the structure look complete again. Players are also allowed to fill up holes in the ground and optionally plant trees as long as the area isn't drastically changed but only repaired. When a structure has been damaged so much that the appearance cannot be determined anymore and the build itself consists of no more than approx. 30 blocks in total then players are allowed to change the appearance to something more suitable for the area.".

    That last sentence needs more work.

    But maybe something like this could be possible; where the emphasis has to be put on repairing and not removing (griefing). It might help keep the spawn looking better, which is a major concern for many players afaik.

    Do note though: only 2000 blocks out, anything beyond that would not be covered here and those areas should always be left untouched IMO.
  7. Aikar, Krysyy, anyone. Please give us this...
  8. I'd like to take your suggestion one step further and request that the area up to the limit around spawn be reset along with waste resets - it would clean up any eyesores and give the clear message that if you want to build in the frontier you should establish an outpost before you start!
  9. Which would sent out a completely wrong message in my opinion, because there is no obligation what so ever to do so. I maintain a (now somewhat abandoned) build in the SMP2 Frontier which I sporadically visit (we even have a nice railroad to/from spawn) and it's not established. And there's my SMP9 Frontier project: there I've "claimed" (not officially) a small island where I'm playing survival, doing some rough building and soon I'll be using that to reboot my fantasy story.

    Neither of which have been officially established. In fact: none can because we're sitting too close to an EMC outpost. But that doesn't stop us from building, playing and having fun. Nor should it.

    So obviously I'd oppose such a reset idea. The Frontier is non-resetting for a reason, one of which is to allow us to play (and build) our way.

    That's not saying that I don't agree that we could use a plan to deal with abandoned structures. But resetting parts of the world is something I'd strongly oppose. Just because you don't see them doesn't mean that there aren't any actively supported yet non-established buildings at all.
  10. While I travel across the various world on EMC, my favorite part about the exploration is the abandoned structures, that offer a unique mystery as to what they once were used for long ago. Why if the frontier lacked these it would make exploring a lot less exciting, as you find structures in some odd places.
    ru42lines likes this.
  11. There sure is: a derelict policy .

    1 - Mark areas / structures in question, so that people who might own and use it get / see a "derelict alert". There would be a time frame (12 or 18 months?) where they need to respond to keep the structure. Send messages both in-game and in the forum to all identifiable potential owners (locked chests ...)
    2 - If someone responds and wants to keep the structure, they may be required to repair it on the surface.
    3 - If no one responds within the time, then it gets the "relict" status and can be removed or modified by anyone. A partial reset for such areas, that would just reset the surface, would be theoretically possible but a lot of (probably too much) work for Aikar.

    This has already been discussed in the past, but so far nothing happened.

    I guess the current policy that claims need to be far away from outposts and from each other is a temporary one, made in order to have minimum potential conflicts and minimum of work for the staff.
    Once land claiming is introduced and becomes practice, it will become more clear how a better policy might replace it.
  12. It would be cool if staff could remove some stuff...I know of some people who joined emc and then noticed how bad the wild/frontier looks and then decided they didn't want to stay on emc because it didn't seem safe ...So it would also help make new players feel more safe if they weren't greeted with griefed buildings/structures when they go into the wild/frontier..

    On the other hand I also know players who have rejoined EMC after taking a year or longer break from emc and noticing that their structures/builds were still on the server and they thought that was really cool..even though sometimes it is griefed..It could always be repaired...
  13. We were cleaning up the periodic reset area manually due to the system being broken. However, this stopped when I needed to spend spare time placing spawns instead. The spawns are 1 day from physical completion and another 2 or so from residential completion so that all is pending is the code. With this update, we're hoping to have the periodic reset areas fixed as well so that we can re-implement the actual reset of them.

    Once I finish the rest of the spawns, then I'll resume manual clean up.
  14. Well that's good to hear :)
  15. There is a periodic reset area for the Wilds around the spawns? I'm sorry; I'm slightly confused. I just want clarification please when someone gets a chance. We have all the public utilities within a 2000 block radius of spawns I think.
    NHG is the closest one in /nether, and then there are 3 Grinders, Pigmentus, Fe(II), Sushi Drop, and Hot Rods out at Wild North on smp8. Wild South's Slime Time and Squid Doom are further away than the North builds but still within 2000 blocks. There are also the roads and rail stations which all run right up to spawn. We put all these builds close to spawns for public convenience, and so no one person could "own" them as a personal outpost and close them off from being public to everyone. I may run them and take responsibility for them, but even I don't "own" them. They exist for everyone's use and enjoyment. I just ask that people respect them and their integrity so they remain functional and nice/safe for everyone.

    Moving onto the topic of this thread more closely, smp8 Public Wild Utilities worked with staff this past month to clean up the south side of the nether spawn and the immediate area around NHG. It's not perfect, but it's better than it was :) RDmaster has put in a good bit of time there too making a nice wall across the lava lake at the entrance to NHG. I have some plans to put in a few public access towers with ladders for people trying to reach the upper nether rack layer. No more pillars of dirt/cobble would be nice out there I think.
    HxCami and chickeneer were kind enough to help us. Chickeneer removed some piles of dirt/cobble that were actually inside the protected zone, and Cami helped us identify what was ok for us to remove/clean up. Currently, rdmaster, corruptedsmile, MrCDub and myself have been cleaning up the Wild End on smp8 also. We're renovating it into a dragon slaying ring. RDmaster has done a ton of work over the years for the smp8 wild end access (and come to think of it, that is close to a spawn also). ForeverMaster has been contributing to that also with her public enderman farms and the roads at Wild C leading to them.

    Would it be possible to form an official EMC beautification/maintenance team? There's a contribution team, and a build team already. Perhaps a new team for upkeeping areas within X blocks of the spawns? They could clean up long abandoned pillars of dirt, put in simple paths where it's obvious players wanted/needed a road, and renovate old structures where it's deemed appropriate. For example, a ship sits off of Wild North that looks like it was once pretty cool. More than 50% of it is still there. That's enough to make a decent guess of how it should look if the creator is long since gone from EMC or currently on an extended absence.

    If that's not a good idea, then there's always running a maintenance event. Rotate between the spawns, and let the players do the work much like we just did south of /nether. It's fun to do things as a group, and I don't like the idea of putting yet one more responsibility onto the staff. I think we do need some guidance that only the staff can give since we can't tell who created something out there or how recently they started/worked on it. No one wants to do an accidental grief. Most people like events, and this is one that would give players a sense of pride in making things look nice again around the spawns.

    I personally know several players who have done this on their own even without an event or a team. MD used to go fill creeper holes all the time near Wild C. Lacronton is currently doing the waste roads (after each reset, various people put in roads between waste outposts). BobbyTheBuilder, Scrocraft, SgtPepper4, rdmaster, corruptedsmile, Tojoro, Walrus, and many others have all put time into making things nice around spawns or adding roads, boat docks, etc. I think there are a lot of people who would love to help make the areas around the spawns nicer. They just need a bit of information and guidance :)
  16. I'm sold! A couple of people, including myself, have recently done an effort to restore the frontier of smp6 to its former glory (the same area seatwig is building in, the origin of this post lets say). We filled pits, planted trees, bonemealed some grass... but there's always a pillar or a few odd bricks left and right, some 3/4'the blown up building,... that we can not touch. This is mildly annoying.
    I therefor say yes to a maintenance team, make it happen! ;)
  17. Agreed. I'd even apply myself.

    Give them (virtual) build perms on that area, train them so we all know what's expected of us and if we mess up then throw us out of the Empire (I am dead serious there). If we grief then the only expected penalty can be a permanent ban including loss of items and a possible return through appeal.

    High stakes? You betcha, now it's time to put your money where your mouth is. I'd go for this. Just follow the simple rule: "When in doubt ask staff". I'd apply for smp2 no questions asked.

    Another idea: no refunded items. We provide them ourselves. I spend major amounts of stacks of cobble on the wastelands just to fortify and make it look better (sometimes also cooked to stone). Considering that most we need is dirt, cobble and some possible other materials...

    So the moment I can miss stuff I go to work, easy. No demand, no expectations, just rebuilding.

    Don't have the items? Ask the server! Massive amounts of people care about GRIP: even if we try to buy items (seriously) we're not "allowed" because people donate 'm. If your server cares for their frontier spawn... don't you think they might donate?

    I think this could work. IF... if you gather the right people with the right mindset.
  18. Great idea, I'd also volunteer with services and materials
    khixan likes this.
  19. I would like to point out that some of these structures are just coverups for people mining the frontier.
    PetuniaFigtree likes this.
  20. An efficient solution is to train "rebuild supervisors" - probably experienced players who can recognize different types of structures and their value - who in turn can lead rebuild groups and make decisions.

    If there is mess and damage, then the reasonable and natural action is to clean up the mess and repair the damage - and not to create even bigger damage and despair.

    It would be a damage for EMC to create potential victims out of people who care about the server and want to help. It is wrong to spread such mentality of "make a mistake and get capital punishment".