Honestly, I 100% agree with this post. This community has gone down the absolute drain since a few years ago. It wasn't that long ago someone joined the server and started spamming homophobic remarks across the server. The mod muted them 3 times, then finally issued them a one hour ban. Of course they got on an alt, repeated the process, got a several hour ban. The next day they showed up again, and eventually received a week ban. That is in no way an okay thing to do. They should have gotten a punishment much sooner, and it's a case I'm exceptionally upset about. Another scenario, there was an instance where a couple of community members were making highly inappropriate jokes in town chat. This was brought up to senior staff and such, and instead of any "real or seen punishments" one was promoted to a moderator shortly after. Several members of the veteran community had a personal chat with admins talking about things we weren't comfortable with, and things we wanted changed. We were told "notes were taken" and there would be a retirement and switch around with staff but little changes were seen, and the staff that were removed were the ones we didn't have problems with. This tutorial? A complete joke. I understand it took a lot of time and effort, but that means nothing when people literally speed through it and learn nothing. People can also talk while they're in the tutorial. That's a huge mistake. I've seen countless people join and automatically spam, advertise, and use inappropriate language. How are you protecting anyone from this? If anything, you're asking for people to join and do this. The older tutorial made you actually finish before you could talk, and this cut out a huge chunk of people looking to "join and get banned." Another note, it really says something about your server when a rival sever's name is blocked by a filter, but there's a list of obscene words that are not. This server after 2 a.m EMC is left completely unwatched. While there are few people online, these people are rampant. Their /reports do nothing, there is no moderation. Just this morning (4-5 a.m EMC time) I witnessed people being harsh and cruel to one another, a screen of spam, and just general things most staff should be there for. There has also been a decline in the quality of the community and its behavior. I mentioned to players that I intended to take a long break after I wrapped up some loose strings, and I was instantly bombarded with PMs asking about my promos and rupees. People have become much more greedy, and it never fails that people get scammed out of their promos the first day a promo is released. I do have to say, I have LOVED this server. Since I played 3 years ago, and now, this server was my home. This server has created a distraction from the real world when I desperately needed it. That's not to say it's perfect, though. There has been a gradual decline, and it's slowly been pushing me away from this server for a while. While some staff have been bad, others have been great. Honestly though, I feel like too many people are given a position of power for far too long. It warps people. I think it would be best if mods worked in cycles. Mod A works from Month 1 to Month 3, and Mod B works from Month 3 to Month 4. Maybe even incorporate this to higher staff. I think EMC is large enough at this point that something like this is almost necessary.
This thread is about the community decline, yet your post is almost all about the leadership issues you have. If you wish to make a post to air your own grievances, you may do so. Please do not derail this thread with staff/server bashing.
Could I get some clarity on this. I'll use myself as an example. Say that I applied for staff. Would I then be disqualified because I afk? I'm quite active when I'm at the PC. I mostly afk when I'm sleeping and gathering the 'fruits of my labour' or if I'm at work and a job comes. But I like to think I'm fairly active. Obviously if I was chosen I would never afk on that account, I would instead log out until I was available. But in this scenario would I still be disqualified? I mean it goes without saying that I would not do this as a green. I've talked with enough mods to know somewhat of what's expected and would adjust accordingly. Not trying to ruffle feathers just curious. Thanks.
No problem. Let me see if I can clear it up: We look at your activity across multiple time zones, not just one. If you are quite active when awake and afk when asleep, then that's not an issue. I'll see that in one or a few of my visits. I usually look to see if you actively talk in chat, etc as well to help for the times when I have to sleep or one of the Senior Staff would visit you (unfortunately I'm not the Energizer bunny). If you're on the good list and we are at that stage, I don't discount you on one or even a few visits for being afk.
Thanks, much appreciated. I just didn't want something like this to get in the way of me possible applying in the future.
I can understand your feeling here, but I do not think that what you say is really so, I think it is more just subjective impression. What happened is that many people have left and, fortunately, many new people came to EMC. The community changes, culture changes, atmosphere changes. This is a natural process, I've observed it in several communities, both on-line and in-person. It is enough that 5% percent of "key" people change and the community will change 50%. This does not mean that it's "gone down the drain," not at all. With younger people joining, what would you expect? But many people are still here, and have gained quite some maturity, and this IMO more than makes up for all of the community that has left EMC. I think this is exactly how it should be and I congratulate to that mod(s). This is how a strong community reacts, this makes people feel safe. Now if I could know what you see as highly inappropriate ... Did they just miss to choose a private channel for such jokes or do you think they were making that on purpose to disturb people who could listen to the town chat? So did people ask them to stop? Did they stop and apologize? I've checked the tutorial like 2 weeks ago and I like it a lot. I'm usually not online during the peak times, but I was online quite a lot during last few months and I don't think I've seen somebody spamming out of the tutorial once. This automatic word blocking is very invidious task, it's better not to do it. The best protection here is community culture - and I think that regarding the language we really have some culture on EMC. (This always reminds me of the Monty Python stoning sketch ) It's younger players that are, of course, accustomed to get everything they need and want from the older people around them. This is normal and not a sign of "declining quality of the community". They will soon learn that begging is not acceptable behavior. The fastest way is if their begging reminds fruitless or even earns them some scoff. Yes, it does. This is a very good idea.
Leadership issues that you 'wrote down', said you'd handle ... yet when we brought it up later - you 'forgot' ...what happened to your notes? If the issues were taken care of, they wouldn't have to keep being brought up again. ---- The reason I practically quit emc, is the necessary development came at a stand still for almost a year straight - getting individuals that knew nothing about programming, minecraft, or emc to help out - look how long that took. I brought up all the staff related issues, development related issues, and lack of community involvement with aikar - you know what he told me? That the staff weren't like how we were perceiving them ... and that it wasn't his job to do anything about it ... This entails a lack of leadership skills* If you want to improve aspects about a community, don't consider yourself perfect, take individual's concerns into consideration, and don't turn the server into a staff vs players ambiance. ---- Another reason why I quit emc, is in mumble staff and other players were listening to all of our conversations from another channel - This not only puts those staff on a 'creepy' list, but that also means I don't trust being around them... I also brought that up to aikar - and was disregarded.... ---- You can't say individuals are derailing or disparaging when in other threads or private conversations, they are ignored (unless it's a thread by a contrib member or staff) You can't also get defensive as soon as someone says something against you or the server, otherwise there will never be any criticism, suggestions, or improvements rightly made - except by the individuals you care to listen to. I was there, that day. ----- They were making rape jokes ... they were told to stop, they didn't. Someone said they were reporting them and getting a mod ... one of them logged out so they "didn't have to deal with this" 3 moderators joined... another senior staff later joined... Nothing was done about it, one stayed a contrib member/build member ... the other was later promoted to mod. ----- It was purposefully in town chat. Yes, they were told to stop. No, they did not apologize. They only stopped when someone threatened to bring a moderator to the smp.
Everything you brought up was addressed as best they could, as I have in fact explained to you multiple times. Not a thing on that list hasn't been looked at and brought into account when making decisions. I have no idea who told you that we can listen to mumble channels without being IN the physical channel. We can't. The only thing we can do for other channels is look up the chat log if something is reported. And that requires Aikar. I specifically mentioned that they could take their grievances to another thread to keep this one on track. I never told anyone not to post anything. I generally only make refuting comments in the case that I or the server is being accused of something I/it is not and I won't deny that. If someone accuses me of having only 1 arm, I'll proudly show a picture of me having 2. It's not being defensive. It is proving my point.
I am going to get this off my chest now, and I am changing positions on my contributions. I slept on it, I meditated, I read, and I came up with an answer about why I share this opinion. I am depressed about what the community has become, and I am trying to find a scapegoat. I wish I could go back to a time that once was, but as I need to remember, it once was. I miss all my old EMC friends and staff, and that cannot be replaced by any change in policy or change in positions. This, the suggestions above which I contributed to, are my way of telling myself that the community can easily be restored. Right now, reading this in hindsight, I feel absolutely awful, because I can tell how much these staff pour their heart and soul into EMC. With moderation, I can tell they only want to preserve everyone's feelings, and that they are choosing the road less traveled to do so. With the community, it is not an easy fix, and I do not know where to begin. I miss it feeling close. I miss when SMP7 was weird. There are staff I miss, events I miss, projects I miss, that all warp to make the past seem so great. I need to stop focusing (and so does much of EMC) on what was. I am mourning a time that no longer exists. I want to find some bit of hope that my good friends will be back on EMC, that everyone can be a close community together, that some minor fixes could make everyone a better friend, but I am lying to myself and everyone else if I were to say so. The truth is, change is internal, and begins with everyone. This is not an issue with how EMC handles things. I wish that was true, because that would be a heck of a lot easier. Gawadrolt, M4nic_M1ner, crystaldragon13, Krysyy, samsimx, Dramanya, and anyone else, thank you all for your words of wisdom. I actually wrote this thread, and had caden edit it into his own worry, because I was afraid I would hurt people and cause uproar, because I am a coward. I did not know if I believed the words myself. All I can say is that I regret it. These posts always end up counter productive, leaving the community in a rut. I feel especially sorry to the staff. This meant to be an opinion, but I can see that it has come across as hurtful. People I consider as close friends found this to be offensive and sad, and I cannot stand to have my friends feel that way because of my actions.
As a veteran and well known player here, I figured i would pop in to post. Nobody take offense if I say something wrong, I am not directing anything towards one player. THE COMMUNITY So I joined EMC April 2012, I found EMC because my Irish xbox friend told me about it (he was a terrible friend btw- his peer pressure and bad morals made me get banned on EMC because he convinced me the burning down a random structure was okay (I had no idea that it wasnt allowed because the answers to the tutorial were given to me...) That statement aside- the community was amazing for the month I played before being banned, everyone was active in chat and afk farms were almost nonexistant. I was unbanned around new years 2013, man was I sorry for my actions and was glad to be given a second chance. The community then was very active still, but many members left in that short time. Skip forward a while and I became active on the forums and in gane helping people when I could. I became friends with samsimx and Jcplugs, and over the span of... a while.. we had a crap ton of fun- thats what the community was about was having fun. Then afk farms were a thing and less and less people talked in chat. I began playing less and less- noticing a tempban or a grief ban here and there. I came back a few months ago and the community felt younger and dead, ICC was gone as well as most of my great friends including Jc. I became more known again but playing wasnt as fun. You can rule the economy with a few hours of work and days of afk. Before my computer started failing me (hoping to get it fixed soon), the people I wanted to talk to were ekther playing less or AFK all the time. (Sorry if this post is a bit wild, have to type in mobile and get lost in my thoughts. STAFF When I was active after my ban, we started getting more staff- most memorably at the time were bitemenow15 (who I became friends with and found he lived behid my school...) and JackBiggin was in that bunch I believe?... I knew every active staff and chatted with them a ton, even before they were promoted. When I came back a few months ago sam was staff and bite and many others were not. We got a batch shortly after and I knew none of them and some had 600+ days and before my last break I was active on all the servers and knew all the players that frequently played. I didnt mind because I was in my own world- staff was staff and I talked to them once in a while. Skip forward a bit---- I was sitting there and a good friend Jrm531 (it was him if my memory is right, but there is a chance I forgot and I apologize) who told me to apply fir staff because he thought I was a good candidate. I mentioned my history and he said go for it anyways so I did, soon after the app was reset so I did not apply again also with pc issues... but what I am trying to get across is that I think in some sense that some more well known and veteren players shouks aplly even if they made mistakes, with time comes experience. Im not saying any of the new staff are bad in any way because I have had halp from staff members right after their promotion and they handled it amazingly. All I am saying is for some more vets to throw their hat in the ring. Sorry if this post is worded crazy or if it doesnt contribute to the discussion at all. Just wanted to get a few things off my mind, also sorry for grammar errors #mobile. I hope the community returns to what it once was, because I see less and less veteran players as time goes on and they usually say thier lack in playing is due to the community.
Something that has come to mind over the last couple of months and I have yet to put into exact words is that the community at the moment does not suffer because of staff actions. I am NOT saying the staff is perfect, but it's not the primary cause for the decline people see. The players are. I urge you to look at threads of the past. Instead of criticizing remarks about how things wouldn't work from community members and grammar corrections, there was more acceptance of new projects and offers to help. I built an entire hotel off of community donations because they wanted to see something cool I was making. I didn't plan on having it fund the project at the start, but the community wanted to help me out as a player. I didn't have to ask. In the past, events were about fun and good times with players. No one spammed chat with 'What prize do we get if we win?' etc. There were no promos or giant events held for holidays, there was maybe a 'Claim 1000 free rupees on site'. The players were okay with that. Now when we release a promo, we are plagued with messages of 'Would have been cooler if it did this...' or players upset we let it run longer so more players could have one. The community IS suffering, but it's not up to the Staff to fix it. It's up to the players of the community to support one another. I've seen plenty of player interaction groups forming and that's great, but there needs to be an overall shift from the greediness of today to the playfulness of the past.
Creepy, distasteful and stalker-ish yes, rape no. Also if you'll recall, I was the subject of those jokes. Was pretty awkward here too, thanks. Let's leave it at that. Two things: "You can lead a horse to water..." - The most any server can do is present the information to players, in a way that is easy to understand and absorb. The more roadblocks you put up to try and "enforce" that learning, the less likely someone is to follow through. Remember the old tutorial maze - did you read, or just guess the tunnels? Or follow someone else? Bottom line is, no matter what EMC (or any other server) does, learning can't be forced onto a player. They have to be willing to take their own time to read, understand, and comply. If they don't... that's why we have staff. Last night, a new player kept getting stuck in the floor while teleporting between sections. After my own efforts to free them failed, I stole samsimx off SMP7 to come help. But if that player hadn't been able to access chat, none of us would've known there was an issue and they'd have simply quit. Time will tell if they stick around, but a helpful community (staff and player alike) is bound to make a better impression that one that ignores you until you quit. I haven't been in-game as much these days, so what you see is bound to be different from what I have. If moderation in the off-hours is that problematic, maybe we need a mod or two for those time zones. Anyone you can recommend?
I totally agree with point 2. Another thing I've noticed is recently the staff team has lacked in the basic English side of things. I know not every staff member's native language is English, but when they can't capitalise "I" correctly, there are problems. Staff members are one of the front faces of EMC. Being the nitpicky person I am, I really do despise the incorrect use of basic grammar, spelling and punctuation. As I had left the community for quite some time, I have noticed it did change. EMC seemed 'warmer' before, but now everyone just argues (I do admit that I do to), or as I've seen commonly is "close this thread", when there is absolutely no need. In-game is just meh. I login to collect promos and keep my reses, other than that, there is no other reason to play. I have the people I want to talk to on Skype and they're either the same as me (not 100% active) or have completely left EMC, so being social isn't a thing EMC does for me anymore.
And here we see a major part of the problem. If an i is left uncapitalized, is it really the end of the world? All of the staff members have more than sufficient grasp of the English language, as that is all that is really needed.
I do get why he said this, staff members truly are the face of the community, and if they are lacking the proper spelling, punctuation, and capitalization in their statements (while we're advertising our servers are ran by adults), how does that reflect on the community to the new players?
It seems to be a bit nit-picky (?). I know there are a few people that are big on grammar and spelling (which I am outside of the game), but I don't think it reflects poorly on the staff. I type quite differently on forums than I do in game, because I'm mostly too busy playing to worry about capital letters and punctuation. It has never bothered me to see anyone not using proper grammar in game. Spelling does bother me, but at the same time I don't see it as something that generally affects my viewpoint on staff or other players.
Then you obviously haven't read any of Aikar's posts before I fix them. Grammar isn't front and center on our priorities list if the point is getting across. Spelling things correctly doesn't make you an adult. I sometimes use the wrong their or they're on occasion when doing things quickly. Mistakes happen and content always takes priority.
Grammar should be priority when dealing with/in the view of new players to the server, that is all I am saying.
