Sorry to bump an old thread but this hit home. I recently had all my diamond gear priced the same as I've had it for a few months. Since then the price of diamonds went way up (Nearly double what I was charging) without me realizing it. According to my rupee history it took another shop owner less than 5 minutes to completely buy out my entire inventory. 27 Diamond Chestplates, 27 Diamond Leggings, 27 boots, 27 helmets, etc, etc. I immediately suspected Azoundria because He/she(?) had already asked if they could buy me out earlier that day. I said "No" explaining that I used diamond tools and armor to get people through the door. Azoundria appeared to respect my wishes at that time. A few hours later my entire stock of diamond tools and armor was gone. The player that bought me out was not Azoundria, but I still found it suspicious. Anyway, it was my mistake not to stay on top of the diamond prices and I lost a lot of potential income thanks to it. So yes, I banned the player from my store, just as I would someone who took advantage of a new shop owner accidentally reversing the buy/sell prices on their shop signs by mistake. It's not against the rules, but it's rude. It only took me an hour to re-stock everything but I learned from my mistake. I don't fill the chests any more. I stock 7 of each item then fill all but 2 of the rest of the spaces with dirt, so that if diamond prices sky rocket I limit my losses, and if prices take a nose dive I don't buy a bunch of overpriced inventory.
Just to note, it is against the rules to take advantage of buy/sell shop errors but not to buy someone's entire stock. Unless you limit how much stock of an item you put in the shop then that item can be bought by any player. I don't agree with banning players from your resume for doing this as it is the shop owners responsibility to monitor stock levels. It is no different to someone selling you items, and then getting upset with them because you did not cap your chest. I have had this done to me and while it can be bad for the shop owner it is there responsibility to prevent this from happening also.
I never said it wasn't my responsibility, but I thought it was rude to buy out the entire stock. And I stick to that. Are you saying that If I had mistakenly reversed the buy/sell sign it would not have been my responsibility? I don't see the difference.
Well, technically it would be your responsibility but I like to think that it's covered by an unwritten law. Meaning; anyone can make a (small) mistake (and mixing those numbers up is what I'd call one). Therefor it would be plain out rude to take advantage of that, despite if the player ("shop owner") is new or not. At least in my opinion obviously.
If a shop owner really wants to help (new) players, she/he would better offer high buy-prices and low margin - so that the players can exchange the goods they produce for the goods they need in a cheap, convenient, efficient and sustainable way. This is what I'm trying to do. Reselling is an important service to the community. You transport stuff from places where it is produced / offered to places where it is needed and you get the difference in price as your reward. It can be quite profitable business if you know the prices well. I'd draw a line at the "half of the market value". If you find a shop that is selling stuff for a price that is obviously below the half of the current market value, then I'd check with the owner first if it is their intention to sell at that price. The same goes for a buy-price over the double of current market value. Some shops explicitly ban bulk selling or buying - this should be respected. Some shops encourage bulk buying / selling and reselling: for example 12162, 17177 - and soon 12221
Or you can sell to Todd_Vinton. 2000 is really expensive when selling, so it's buy prices are much higher. You can buy a lot of different items and sell them to him for a profit.
How i see it in my shop is, After you buy it from my shop, Who am I to tell you what you can and cannot do with it? I cannot control what people do with items after they are bought from my shop, And I tbh could care less if people re sell the items they bought from me. I still make the exact same number of rupees that i asked for, and i don't make any less, or lose any, so I could care less what people choose to do with their own items.
This this this this this. When a shop owner makes a shop sign, they are telling the world what they consider an acceptable transaction. If a player buys a diamond shovel for their own use or to resell, the shop owner still comes out of the deal with what they asked for. I understand that some shop owners like to serve many people rather than a few, and thus do not want players buying large amounts from them, but that should be stated on signs or something when the player enters the shop. I find it completely acceptable for someone to ban someone from their res due to them not following courtesy signs. But to ban someone from your res because you feel like you didn't get what you should have (the buyer resells), that is just silly. You got what you asked for, you should have gotten what you asked for.
This is really the only part of your post that I disagree with. Signs become outdated within days or hours if a major market change occurs, like it did recently. EDIT: Sorry if you read a closed off sentence, the school computer started crashing, lol.
I agree that the market does change, but that is a risk you accept when owning a shop. It has been very well known that diamond prices are rising, and many shops closed down the diamond shops as a precaution or raised their prices excessively high in order to stay ahead rather than lose money while not paying attention. It is a risk that all shop owners have to take.
Actually, the system is smart enough to not allow you to do this to yourself. Just as a little bit of info. Learning the tricks like filling extra buy slots with dirt or limiting stock are very important. It takes a lot of time and dedication to run a good shop. Thanks to everyone who makes the effort because our servers need good shops.
I view placing a Shop Sign to be similar to giving someone limited Container permissions at your Residence. By placing a shop sign you are essentially giving someone permission to take/place items from/into the Chest in exchange for Rupees. I generally agree with others in this thread that if I put a price on an item, it is a price I am willing to accept in order to part with it. I also think reselling is a sad way to run a shop if your goal is to make Rupees and I think it says something about you personally if you feel you have to rely on it or are willing to take advantage of someone to make a buck. When someone does this, it feels as if they take control of how you play the game away from you by forcing you to work to refill your stock on their schedule and terms rather than yours. But that's just how some people are both here and in real life. When I have had this happen to me, in addition to the suggestions already made, I sometimes ask the person to place orders for large numbers of items in the future and offer a discount for doing so. I think you are generally better off if you try to foster collaborative relationships with other players even if they are in competition with you.
Well firstly Aikar fixed that little problem some time ago, so you can no longer make that mistake if the buy/sell prices are on the same sign, but can still go against you if you have say one chest selling diamonds at 90r each and another chest buying them at 92r each. Any player found taking advantage of such an error could potentially find them selves in a spot of bother as it is against the rules, in effect stealing from another player. We all have a responsibility on emc to play fair with one another, even if you make the error it is wrong for another player to take advantage and you report them. Some players try and resolve this with the player directly. With regard to your situation, a player buying you out like that for future you might want to place some signs asking players not to do so. It is also possible to place a sign with what you want to say within reason that can then be activated by players, you would have to look this up in the wiki as I am not sure if it can be activated with a pressure plate but if it can then as they tp to your shop a msg could be displayed "pls respect my shop and do not over buy or resell items you buy".
I have to disagree with this to a point, I buy items from other shops at times to resell, I agree this with some of the the owners when I can. I find that these players are happy to have someone buy their goods and I take the risk of possible loss. I have several DC's of items like this which have cost me a lot but I am happy to sell the items at a slow place and the shop owners where happy to take the rupees from me. This is not much different from someone coming to sell to my shop or become a supplier. If all I did was just sell the items I mined or harvested then and never spend a rupees then I would feel that I was working against the economy as trade needs to be free flowing, likewise if I went around and bought out every shop so that only my shop had stock again this could be damaging. I had someone sell around half a million rupees worth of an item to a chest I had not capped. I did not realize how easy it had become to get this item and so while I was disgruntled about it at the time I accepted the situation. One day the item may sell but this is the risk we take and accept.
On one hand you say it is good for the economy that you buy items then resell them, that it helps it to be "free flowing". You also said up-thread that a shop owner should limit their stock and cap their chests in order to protect themselves. I visited one of your shops and see that the items were all priced too high for me to resell and the Sell prices are a ways below what I could make selling it myself. Why do you hate the economy so much?
You seem upset with what I have said I would be interested to know why? I don't hate the economy at all quite the opposite, and hate is a very strong negative word I avoid using myself. I have had shops for a long time and stocking so many items takes a tremendous amount of time and work, so to slow that process down and also allow other shop to thrive, I set my prices high. This way other players will look around and use other shops before they use mine, although that is not always the case. In like manner other shop owners / new shop owners have a chance of making some rupees in competition with me and still do well. My shop is not the cheapest but likewise it is not the most expensive, and some players do buy from me to re-sell. I have also built a public free to use sheep farm over 4 residences on around the my mall res. New and old players can always earn rupees that way or just use the wool for their builds or sell in their own shops.
I have been around EMC for a while and seen prices increase and drop, new items come along and prices change like crazy. But I just do not understand why people don't accept reselling. You put up your sign asking for that price and you get that price that you asked for. It is their item now to do whatever they want with it, not yours. You got what you wanted and they got what they wanted. In my opinion reselling can bring up business because people will buy from you just to resell which will get you money and attract customers to your shop.
If you're doing the 'lost leader' strategy it might be a better idea to stock 1 or 2 items each time you're on. That way you still have lots of armour to restock the shelves, don't have to ban anyone for a misunderstanding, and you may encourage people to keep coming back to check for more inventory. If a player buys and sells the same item to the same shop and makes profit in the process, that is considered theft. Players can and do get in trouble for that. On the other hand, if a shop owner, through their own negligence or generosity, prices items below market, that's fair game. It is part of the responsibility of a shop owner to price items above or at least very near the buying price of other shops to avoid the arbitrage opportunity. Do remember that even if theft occurs, getting items back is not guaranteed. It is definitely worth the time to look up prices and double check that signs are set up correctly.
I am trying to point out that it is contradictory for you to refer to reselling in one post using a word suggesting theft or to describe all the things you do to keep it from happening, then in another to say that it is a healthy thing you do for the good of the economy. If you think reselling makes the economy more healthy but you are doing everything in your power to keep it from happening in your shop, then you must not want it to be healthy, right? My original statement you quoted was when I said that I didn't think reselling was a good way to make Rupees because you are only getting a margin on an item rather than 100%. I understand that with so many shops you aren't going to be able to stock them completely yourself so you have to rely on other people. In the same statement I also implied that some people also take it to the extreme and buy people out without considering how it may be affecting the other player in real life(or possibly they know it may hurt them and do it anyway). A lot of the people we play with are quite young and want to have a shop just to attract other players to play with. It makes them feel popular and liked. I often have seen players quit after people have either bought them out or run them out of Rupees filling their Chests. If you set up a shop envisioning that other players are going to come to you and think you are a great guy for supplying them with inexpensive blocks then find the reality is that a competitor gutted it and took everything you had... You and I realize it's a game that many of us feel very competitive about. Not all players do or are able to play on the same level, yet. You and I being older players, find ourselves having to consider whether we want to tell a shop owner he's a bit low on an item or to take advantage of his mistake. Or whether we want to compete with someone as an equal or give them a break and try to help them out. Reselling puts us in the position of having to make those decisions. You might think that as you redistribute items from someone else's shop to yours that you are doing a benevolent community service that is keeping the economy healthy, but the person on the other side of that Sign you are clicking may see it as you simply enriching your self at another's expense or even as a personal attack.
The word should have read thrive. So by doing it the way I do it and that is different to the way others do it, i hope other shops will thrive. That's mobile predictive text for you. I am home again on my pc so will add a bit more here: - Yes I miss spelled the word thriving or thrive, I can see how that would have changed the meaning of what I said. Yes some players will get upset regardless of age when someone takes advantage in the wrong way. Problem is if you don't do everything to protect the shops you have then the chances are someone will either sell you everything they have and take all your rupees or buy everything and your left with no stock. This will be fine with some players who use alts to hold the greater part of the rupee's and or are happy for someone to buy all there goods so they have rupees and can then restock. I know some of these things can have a negative effect on some shops, especially new ones where as you say the player has set up the shop to get and make new friends. In the almost 3 years I have been on EMC I have seen it all and understand the points you make this is why my shop was set up in the way it is. I know it might seem strange to set prices so high that it stops players from buying from me, but it has made a difference on smp6, we have seen the number of shops increase. This is what is needed on all the servers and why I set up shops on smp3 and smp7 although they need more work, they are open though for players to buy and sell. Once upon a time in the early days there where shops everywhere and the competition was great, although I don't think we quite appreciated it at the time. This is why a few of us have been working to help improve things, buying and reselling is just a part of how things work even when it works against you. The only thing that I found that reduces the effects of this is to limit the stock you put in the shop to sell and also to cap the chests so you don't get over sold items. I am sure most players use these methods, but agree new players have not learnt just yet.
