Rebalancing the Empire Economy [slow induce]

First I'm sure you meant "sort out the WILD which is for 'builds not mining'

But we were discussing the Periodic Reset Area of the wild which it's main goal was to be able to be reset without warning allowing fresh resources to be easily acquired. (It's the yellow box around the spawn of the wilds on the live map.)

But back to our conversation aikar, I do understand that the economy is "broken" and I'm all in favor of more rupees, but I still think we should not do anything until at least we see how 1.8 affects everything and definitely wait until the afk patch is implemented with a punishment for those that circumvent, either by macros or a simple weight on a button.

Lol, why go to work? To get paid, not because you want to.

And yes, I did mean the wild. Thanks Pugfury for the correction!

/shop buying is a great idea imo. Since there is a surplus of materials why not just empty that surplus and go from there. It also allows new players to have a place to sell items instead of undercutting everyone so they can make a small amount of rupees thus also promting others to try to match their price. Another idea that I liked is creating another rupee drain (maybe the ability to fly on your res for a amount of rupees per day or something like that).

Sorry, but that last suggestion would not be good I think. We have reasons to only allow that on utopia.

Didn't hurt to try.

Let's face it, the economy was sort of messed up before this thread was created. For one, we had two shops in particular that "defined" the market and what prices would set the tone for the economy, promos included. I definitely agree kilmannan about the Empire Shop, its prices should be adjusted so it would become more a "competitor" on the market, that can't be beat unless prices are lowered by players. There has also been a growing problem in the economy about who is getting what, there tends to be a trend that the rich get richer, not that there is anything against that, since they can do that, but very simply put the rich already have a fortune + any other item fortunes they hold, the rest of us are out there scrambling for the spots that will put us on the map for the economy. I don't see how any solution would actually work, because it is probably possible for someone to generate enough iron, paper, or whatever they sell for a low price to meet the high demand quickly, so you can't stop low prices from coming around even if the Empire Shop price decreases. I do think that the value of items isn't where it is supposed to be, because our promos today are not priceless, but rather they are based on an economy where Diamonds would have a cheapest price of 40r per, and if you do the math and compare that the number of times you would find a Diamond vein (app. 4 Diamonds), during the amount of time in between each promo release mathematically, you would probably find our promos would be way overpriced, probably only at a value of 32 Diamond's worth.

Selling to the Empire Shop could be great tool if set up wisely. It could be the way to change EMC economy to be much more natural, challenging, fair and fun to play.

1. It should not have but minimal interference with demand and supply in order not to interfere much with natural processes which are vital for successful economy. It's Minecraft, not Buycraft.
2. Prices need to be automatically calculated and updated (live!) according to parameters.
3. The /shop would need to track it's own (virtual) stock
4. Calculation needs to take into account a number of parameters like
   • Number of active players
   • Sum of online hours
   • Active currency volume (sum of balances of active players)
   • Current stock of the /shop
   • Current average sell-price for each item (average price when buying from player shops and the /shop)
   • Current average buy-price for each item (average of the price when selling to player shops and the /shop)
5. The calculation would need to wisely remove outliers (values far too high or far too low) when calculating averages / parameters. This would be a very important point to prevent abuse of the system.
6. The calculation would need to consider period of not less than 3 months
7. The calculation would normally not go under 200% of average sell-price when selling and would normally not go over 50% of the average buy-price when buying. Normally means when it's own stock is within designed range for the item in question.
8. It would have a soft limit for its own stock calculated per active player. The more the /shop's stock grows, the lower would be the prices - and vice versa. If the /shop's stock grows over 100% of the designed soft limit, it would gradually lower its prices more near towards averages, e.g. asymptotically towards avg-sell + 15% : avg-buy - 15%

This is not easy ... I would offer help in designing it if desired.
This would not take away economy problems we have now without further changes. It would surely not take away overproduction of iron - with actually isn't a problem at all.

But ... I think I might have an even better idea, less complicated, simpler and effective - I'll sleep over it 1-2 nights

But it wouldn't be rich if the prices of items went up equally, and everyone else could get just as rich as you (given you started at nearly the same amount).

Excuse me if I missed this part, but I believe this has already been discussed and decided upon (that it is not a good idea) because of the fact that you could get infinite rupees by selling any renewable resource over and over (iron or gold is the best example). This would definitely hurt, not improve, the economy. It would pump rupees in, and get completely rid of items. Although the prices would be extremely low, it is still not a good idea to extract items and inject rupees.

...Well that is disconcerting that a programmer is caving to people who want everything on a gilded platter.. I should tweet him and thank him for waffling.. ..But with the farms.. Does that mean I will get in trouble from AFKing at my wheat farm to get everything to grow..?

the thing that really ruined the economy here was when enchant lvls dropped to 30 from 60.and also when villager trading came out. before it was hard to find iron under 6r a peice, and silktouch picks ranged from 5k-10k if u were lucky

the afk thing has become more of a problem when referring to things where you have to interact with the world to accomplish, and all u need is a rock on your mouse to do so. infinite fishing machines and the previous snapshot iron farms were the focus of anti afking but i dont really see a problem with natural afking.

True, but the price in the /shop would get so low that it wouldn't be interesting to sell any more.

AFKing isnt something I am able to do having a crappy computer, I have to work for resources . Im a quite wealty player IMO (not compared to someone like Todd or Random but you get the point) and I do it just fine w/o having to afk at farms. Yea I might go afk for an hour at most, but I am not farming materials, I just forgot to leave my game running or trying to read this immense discussion. The point is, you dont need to go afk to gather materials or gain money.

For us older players (who played during beta) we should remember the times without afk farms I remember when Minecraft was FUN Yea it is still fun, but do you older players still enjoy it as much as you used to? Probably not. I think the game was more fun when you had to work your butt off to build an awesome house or back when diamonds werent so needed.

Now my head hurts from reading another 4 pages of posts and then typing this message, it probably doesnt even make any sense... anyways ima go do something productive.

For a bit of lighthearted humor, I present a gif of a bug in the latest snapshot. Forget about iron farming bringing the economy to its knees - instead you should look out for item framing!
http://gfycat.com/UnsteadyVastHarborporpoise

Why would AFKing at an Iron farm in the Wild be treated differently from AFKing at a Cane farm in Town?

Oh noes! You are going to ruin the Frame and Stone economy!

I hope things get a little more expensive. When I started playing which was like 3 weeks ago things still had value and it was fun to have a shop because it didn't matter if you worked hard for resources because you were gonna get a good pay day. Now with all these new player prices have dropped way low which in turn makes it not even worth going to restock my shop. I used to breed and sell horses for around 75-200r depending on what came out, not that kids are selling horses for 15-20r it isn't even worth getting gold for golden carrots. Now I know it ain't all about shops and making rupees but it added excitement and challenge but now I'm afraid that with mega malls and new players going with insanely low prices a lot of players shops are gonna be forced to shut down. Please fix the pricing!

the previous snapshot had it where you had to physically hit the golems to get drops meaning you were either autoclicking (which has never been allowed on emc) or "using a rock to hold your mouse down" cane farms can be made to run without player interaction.

1. With more people playing on these servers everyday creates more competition.
2. People will be willing to undercut each others prices to make a sale.
3. Items set their own value, as in how long or difficult it is to obtain them.
4. Obviously more people makes more competition.
5. I thought we wanted a bigger community?
6. I thought this was a survival server not economy based server?
7. How are you going to increase prices on easily obtained items when so many players can get these items and want to sell?
8. Why would you make it illegal to afk at a farm you spent hours possibly days to create? Because so many are making the farms and it goes with #2,3,4?

Aikar said last night that he has plans to stop people from AFK farming. I interpreted your post to mean that there was a distinction being made between AFK farming in Town and in the Wild. After re-reading your post I see that you said that you had no problem with "natural afking", which I assume is like XP, Cane, Iron, or Gold farms. I think you and I are on the same page about it actually. The thing with mouse taping or macros is just a plain no-no.

If no AFK is enforced, it should be enforced for everyone, everywhere. That includes the Staff since they are allowed to participate in the economy. It's bad enough that they have teleport as it is, not that they would ever, ever use it even accidentally (cough).

I also can't go a day without tripping over an AFK pool in Town. If AFK circumvention is bannable and enforced in the Wild it should be enforced in Town as well.