initial thoughts about the Rupees System.. (Important discussion imo)

I would in favor of a weekly lottery, that would indeed be fun in it's own right.
But on the other hand I would be completely opposed to any rent/loan/tax system. Here are some reasons why:

• for the rent: pardon the expression, but this idea is nonsense upon stilts. Any person joining EMC has the right to have his own square of land if he desires, period (if free lots are available). Everybody sees their res differently : while some know they'll want to build the best ever structure in a legit way, some prefer to use them as their laboratory, where their stuff will not get stolen or destroyed, and spend most of their time in the Wild, exploring/fighting/etc. From my own experience, I had no idea what to do with this 60x60x65 block of dirt, so I used it as a farm; my house came waaay later.

• about loans : loans on EMC would bring the same real world situations, that is to say, where some people become riddled with debts and have all their daily bonus and shop benefits taken away to repay these. Loans between members are more ok, but that's strictly between-player business, with deals that have been agreed upon, and with the two parties already knowing each other (you don't lend to strangers, do you ?)

• About taxes : this is also meaningless. By definition, taxes are what public institutions raise from citizens they administer in order to finance their activity and projects. But the administration here cares little about rupees, they need real USD's to run EMC, which come mostly (correct me if I'm wrong) from supporter contributions.

If those features exist in our imperfect world, it's because everything is in finite supply, including currency (unless some crazy State thinks hyperinflation is cool).
A solution to this "problem" would therefore be to stop ALL external (godly-out-of-nowhere) additions of rupees to close the system. Then, all theses features would make more sense, with jobs and all. But EMC is not an rpg server, and frankly, the more complex you make things, the less appealing it is. Frankly, survival is the middle line between a less gratifying creative and a too constraining rpg.

I honestly do not know why people insist on people paying money to chat. No matter how bad the "spam" is, it shouldn't cost someone to talk across the town community.
I think the simpler solution to this would be set up two channels, one for Town General Chat, and one for Town Trade Chat. Enforce the rules of each like you would on the forums. You can enter and leave either at a whim, or you can be in both if you so choose. That way, people who want to trade can trade in peace. People can talk their nonsense on a general chat channel.

Also, for a game moderation idea, EMC could accept a certain number of volunteers that have been on this server for 6 months or so; have participated in the community both in the game and on the website; and have never caused a violation in the rules.
These people would be strictly volunteers; they would get no extra benefits and no game changing privileges. The only thing they would get is priority to talk to a moderator (or something of the sort). When there is no moderator on a server, then these "player mods"(so to speak) look after what is going on in the community. They cannot ban, kick, or do anything to another player -- they get no privileges like that. If something is going on, then these player mods can ask the person in question to stop whatever it is they are doing and remind said person of the rules. If they do not comply, then the player mod could send a message that would alert a moderator promptly to take care of the situation.
You could do some sort of application process to better choose those who would not overuse or abuse the system.

I don't think there really is a problem with chat spam. At peak times there's usually a moderator on that will sort it out pretty quickly anyway. If there's not you can /ignore. There's a maximum of 60 players on, so I don't think it can really get out of hand like on some free to play mmos that have "megaphones" and the like. The point (which i also disagree with) was to increase the value of rupees by make more things cost rupees, saying it is to fix chat spam I believe is just a way to justify it.

We seem to have this kind of system already, but it's generally self appointed people that desire to help.

I've finnaly managed to read through all the intresting posts, and although plot-taxes and teleportingcosts are good ideas, they do not fit as what these are trying to do is control the economy.But that is exactly what i dont want as that would take an aspect of fun and reality away, the randomness of the economy, which means that anything can happen e.g. increase of price of products.
Some ppl say they want to stop exactly that, but that would make the server a bit boring as i want these things to happen because then i would have to think about how i could profit out of the situation. This is why i think NO taxes should be imposed, and any Major Changes e.g. Taxes should be discussed on the forum, but also with economists so that the admins can understand all effects ( these are suggestions).

please continue writing as i do not fully understand some of the ideas here,
and to make the empire better we must change and this is were ideas are created

-dark-

If we are going to start implementing player taxes, we might as well start doing player sacrifices as well so that the minecraft gods can be pleased.

Apamment, I totally agree with you. On the player mod thing, I was just thinking of a way to get these people in touch with mods faster.

i agree, taxes don't make any sense, there's no potholes in any of the roads for council workers to look at whilst eating their danish. I'm all for player sacrifices though.

I'l get the altar ready!

who shall we sacrifice first?? *looks at crazy*

just realized somethings, this is gonna turn into a p;ace where people who hate eachother can volunteer their enemies for sacrifice. By the way,what will we use for sacrificing the offers

it's not a sacrifice if you hate the person you're sacrificing. That's like presenting the gods with a selection of rotten fruit.

anyway we probably shouldn't turn this topic away from the original too much

We did have chatmods a while back (I was the first. ) but they ceased to exist as some people thought that they could get the ability to kick/ban players as a supporter, since chatmods had no special name color and simply adopted their supporter status. (We were all iron supporters, mind...)

That is to say, any form of player-moderation has to be purely on personal decision, because any endorsed power without a visible change between a player-moderator and a normal player, as somebody will become confused and then the entire system will fall apart... again.

Go mine for 10 hours x 2 - that should set you on the trail..

Make certain servers with tax on property? Iunno. I like things the way they are. maybe more features to spend rupees on would be nice. As to what? I can't supply a breathtaking answer. But yeah...We all play the game differently. Who cares as long as we have fun? Thou shalt have fun!

thanks?

Ok so I read all your replies and you've all made some very good points about keeping this server close to vanila so that it is about playing Minecraft with a community and not centering around rupees and losing your plot. I understand that my proposals would affect that, so I've refined them to make everyone happy.

Let me try to approach this from a problem-solution method. The following, I believe, are problems:

1. I've seen many hotels on server 3 alone, and in the current system, they are pretty much useless.
My proposal is: everyone with a plot gets a daily bonus of 75r and everyone without a plot gets a daily bonus of 200r. What this does is that there is a property tax, but no one ever sees it or has to worry about it. You get less bonus if you have a plot, because that's "after-tax". If you don't think you're ready for a full plot or don't need one, then you can hoard more daily bonus by staying at a hotel for a while. This way, people with a plot NEVER have to worry about losing their plot, but their is a some monetary incentive to not owning a plot. I don;'t see how anyone would have a problem with this.

2. Almost everyone uses Town chat, when Local chat would suffice.
My proposal is: 1r per line in town chat to deter useless town chatting and so that if people want to broadcast "Anyone sell wood?" or "Yes, we sell it cheap at 9999" or "Come to my lottery at 9999", which are effectively ads, will get a small charge. This will encourage people to look locally for shops. It will encourage foot movement (which is as vanilla to Minecraft as you can get) and help local markets a lot. You get the added bonus that people will walk around more and explore their neighbor's surroundings and take in the beauty that people have created. Also, if there is no one local to the person to chat, they can always your /tell to ask others on /list.

3. Shops can undercut prices and compete with shops across the entire map, destroying local markets.
My proposal is: Its very hard to compete in the shop business if a few powerful players pull in all the traffic from all over the map, regardless of distance. Teleportation should be limited to some distance to deter teleporting around the map as if everywhere was local. You might think this will hurt the business of some shops, but in reality, more locals will come and less "foreigners" will come, balancing it all out. Teleporting is not vanilla to Minecraft at all, so I think it needs to be more balanced. Everyone cannot be my "1 seconds away neighbor".

4. The money supply is increasing and has no way to be reduced.
My proposal is: it doesn't matter if the money supply is increasing since there are new users, that's a different element. New users get their initial sign up bonus, which although unrealistic (does a newborn get a birth bonus?) is fine. But the Empire is pumping in rupees into a system and not seeing any of it come back. Society is hoarding them, and it will become devalued, no doubt. Right now the only way money comes out is when people with balances stop coming to the server and when people purchase items from the Empire shop. Adding town chat fees, reducing daily bonus for plot residents, offering more services, offering 1 week trials for Iron and Gold status for large sums, etc. This is a way to ensure inflation does not become hyperinflation.

Just to make this clear, these changes do not significantly affect anyone that doesn't want to take part in the new features. They get 25r less daily bonus, are deterred from using town chat for no good reason (as they should be), are encouraged to play Minecraft more vanilla since they can't teleport very very far, and will walk more, and have the OPTION to use new services and features, and maybe even get a support status trial.

As always, I appreciate any feedback.

-Mike

These hotels were built knowing that everyone gets a plot. Changing the system every time someone has a bad money making idea isn't the answer. Having said that, I do think these hotels have a place, especially as more servers are added, I rent a room on SMP2 because I like the idea of having a base on each server.

this would isolate players even more. having a town chat is only very recent here, before that it was a global chat. It's a social channel, and charging for access would really hinder that, especially as a means for getting to know new players who are really watching their rupees - the only social chatting would be old hats who have money to burn.

I too think that increased foot traffic would be nice, even if just to go for walks and see what others have made. Part of the problem is that EMC roads are all identical and placed in a grid, making it really easy to get lost. Perhaps street names / signs?

Getting rid of teleporting, whilst I don't like teleporting, I don't think will be a good idea unless there is some other type of transit system in place (rail carts or something). Most people don't like walking across town admiring the scenery when all they want to do is nip down to the shops to get some bread and milk.

Newborns have parents that buy them supplies and entertainment until they're ready to make it on their own. I disagree with most of this chapter. Value of money is tied to supply demand, players hoarding rupees are effectivley a money sink, and won't affect the value of items until they spend them. EMC doesn't need to see rupees come back. They need USD (as has been said before) which is the point of selling rupees.

Hmm, I never though about renting out a hotel room on each server, that's a good idea. Thanks. So I guess hotels do have a purpose here and work. I stand corrected.

Well, I understand your point of view. I'm just giving my opinion that the chat, for me personally, is too crowded with talk not relevant to me.

I agree that road signs would be a huge plus. Not even names, maybe avenues and streets, so I can know where I am, where I am going, and where I was. I don't like having to remember plot numbers and player names. Sometimes I go for a walk, and end up seeing the same plots because I forget where I went before. Foot traffic is what Minecraft is about, and would greatly strengthen local markets.

Can't rails be build along each street and avenue with two carts on them, that everyone can use, but no one can destroy? I think that's a great idea.

Well, if there was more ways for rupees to be given back to EMC, then the quantity of money in circulation would drop and people would be in greater need of rupees, and more likely to pay USD for them.

I'm enjoying this discussion.

-Mike

I'm not sure how successful they are at present, just that I find them useful, and think they might be more successful in future.

It would be nice, riding in minecarts is fun. There was a big discussion a little while back about an EMC subway system, I'm not sure how that discussion ended.

That seems to be the contentious issue. Some think it's necessary, others no. I don't think money needs to be given back to drop the circulation, our mega-rich players do that. Take d1223m for example. He's made a killing on enchanted items recently, I'm sure he's smart enough to make lots of money when enchanting gets saturated. I rarely see him bid on items, in fact I've never seen him bid (I don't watch all the auctions) so all that wealth is out of the system. But you know what, he donated a huge amount to amadai's wool competition prize pool - thanks to him (and of course all the other generous donators) this competition is hugely successful with heaps of people participating - and all EMC did was link amadai's post on the front page. (EDIT: I didn't mean to take away from amadai's hard work, the competition wouldn't even have happened without her)

Will making rupees more valuable (and more required for general game play) affect this philanthropy?

They need to set a price range for what you can sell things at.

That would mess the economy, just for one reason:
If the lower price range it's 25r(f.e.) then everyone will sell at 25r saying "we have the lowest price" and if the highest price was 50r(f.e.) people will just say "they have the highest price"
Maybe we just need a great shop (not d1223m's *yes it's epic, yes it's well organized, yes it's a moderator's shop, yes people will just use that prices because it's "moderators price"*) that has like a middle line, from the high prices and the low prices