Yeah thats a good question... Nothing with Unbreaking 4+ should be repairable. If you have a bugged item, you must give it to staff to have it receive a final flag. Though I can enforce it in code pretty easy.
Making tools & armor. Repairing tools & armor. Selling them in their shop or to other shops. Hoarding them. Making Diamond Block pyramids that cost millions. Buying them so they lose less as rupees inflate.
Come on people, I can't believe what I am reading here !! As a "free player" of more than 1000+ days, I find this particular discussion rather interesting. I do remember the days when the sign-in bonus was a huge rupee boost ! It was 100 then, and still is today. The fact that there are other "bonus items" now for voting does have it's effect on the Economy, but in my opinion it is negligible. There are many factors that can influence the Empire Economy. The largest is the "buy" shops that are available to a player. I can remember when I first joined , SMP3 had maybe 3 that actually bought items. Remove these buy options, the Economy is seriously affected. This is just one real cause/effect that can affect our little world of Economics. As of late, I have noticed a real lack of Diamonds (not that I buy them) ...as mentioned continuously above ... that truly is caused by one thing. What is that? My gut says that those who have an obscene amount of rupees (1M or more) have chosen to gather together and affect the Market. Having been to many of the Empire Servers lately, there isn't a Diamond to be found. I believe this is strictly by design and my spidey senses are telling me there is a real effort to make a significant impact on the Market. Why you ask? Probably out of boredom. We've done all we can, so now let's see what we can do next. The presence of a ton of new players is terrific, but is not anywhere near enough to affect the Market as it is being currently. As a self-proclaimed purist, rupees means nothing to me. I am always of the mindset that there isn't ANYTHING I can't have without a little effort. With the exception of Empire promotional items, I can go out and find/gather/collect/create any item I need for any given task I perform on a daily basis. I can honestly say that there aren't many things I buy ...but I have lately decided to throw my hat into the Empire Promotional/Collectible arena. Why? Because I have all these rupees .....I may as well do something with them. In fact, the one thing I notice is ...when buying the Holiday Promos this past season, many of the Sellers will spend half of what they made in my Shop. Talk about your win-win !!! I may be down 600k r from where I was before Thanksgiving, but I'm confident my "investments" will pay their returns ....and then some ! If I'm patient enough, 6 months from now (or later) todays rupee will return me 2 ... and that is all about the "open market" concept and the allure of "collectibles " in general. One man's junk in another's treasure. So I figure why not ...I'm not spending them otherwise. An additional factor to the Empire economy is the recent introduction of the Azoundria market listing. Personally speaking, since its inception, I have had a bugger of a time adjusting my Shop prices to fall in line Server(s) wide. Talk about influence ....this, in my opinion, has had the greatest impact on the Empire economy that any voting bonus EVER could. Suddenly, the Economy has a real sense of what is going on out there across 9 Servers and is not so much localized anymore. Given that we are now able to travel between Servers, is just another wrinkle the powers-that-be have included to an already superior product in an effort to keep it fresh and challenge players constantly. Azoundria, coupled with intra-server travel, has, if nothing else, stabilized the Economy in the Empire and has done so perhaps by design. Those calling the shots are always thinking as abstractly as this, and their efforts continue to be in the best interest of the Server, which guarantees its survival, and has for some time now. The formula I have used since opening my Shop is this .... (Effort + Hard Work) + laziness = Rupees. You want to affect the economy? Get your butt out there and do some work! Put in some effort ! Collect your own materials ! As a community, we could affect the Economy ....shoot- bring it to its knees ... if we all started working for it instead of buying it. How about that? The shop prices are astronomical for a reason ....and I learned that from Day 1. Obscene even. Why? If you're going to pay THAT, lazy bones, then we'll sell it to you all day ! Now ....want to wrinkle the Economy more? Throw the "buy" capability in the Empire shop and see where it goes. I get it now ....that Shop doesn't buy for a very good reason. And the overflowing of chests is why I opened my Shop to begin with. All of this Communist discussion, and "unfair" talk is really unnecessary. As a community, there is always ebb and flow, and 6 months from now this discussion is liable to be something on the flip-side, like the market is flooded with Diamonds now and they are worth 30r a piece. BUT, if you actually went out and put in a little bit of effort, why would you need rupees at all? When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change
I'm as a digger and a mini shop keeper, I really appreciated the price change. You are so happy when you find a diamond in deep deep layer, sometimes you have to fight with lava and mobs and sometimes you lose. Diamond is precious XD if you need diamond, go waste and get yourself or buy with spending money. Diamond could be more expensive because you are buying their time and effort as well... well when I started EMC average Diamond price was around 65-75 and 80 was expensive which is 3 month ago, I see it is interesting now all the diamond is running out from the shop and even 90 I can sell a diamond the inflation speed is insane. However, you can earn 900r daily even if you just click ONE website in vote list.( the top one) I hear a lot in town saying I don't have money and I voted today already someone help! and I really wonder what they are using rupees for... anyway, I'm having fun spending money and shopping around! I buy convenience when I want to build something big I also enjoy earning money so it shouldn't be too easy in my personal openion XD
um so prices are getting higher? lily pads were like 25 r for one but 5o r for one lily pad? you must be kidding me!!
The inflation is just a symptom. The causes are of interest. Currency losing value so fast isn't a sign of a healthy economy, that's true. Actually, inflation (= the general rise in prices) is a natural healing measure. What constantly destabilizes EMC economy is high influx of "free" rupees - login, voting, supporters, buying from the website. The inflation is natural stabilizing measure that makes rupees worth less and less and hence restores the balance. This is a good side of the inflation. The bad side of inflation ... is that we need to take care about the rise in prices day by day, that, instead of concentrating on supply and demand, we have to adjust our economic activity according to the deteriorating value of rupees. The currency fails to do its job. Here the rupees, our currency, loses a very important property - it fails to hold value, it does not function as we expect. If you sell something today, you need to rush to spend the rupees and buy what you need today, because tomorrow the rupees you've got will be worth less. This is a serious burden for the trade, it is bad for the economy and development. Comparison to IRL economies If we play legit survival, all goods are limited, as our time needed to gather them is limited. (Side note: before Wastelands with regular resetting, many mined resources were also not renewable, scarce and increasingly hard to find and therefore limited, but this didn't / doesn't have high impact, because the time is still the major limiting factor.) So this is not different from IRL. A difference is that in MC it is so easy to survive, while IRL it isn't. But in EMC, the players eagerness to make progress in the game at least partially compensates for this difference. People will fight to do well in the game even if they won't really die if they don't gather enough food, get good shelter etc. So this is not much different either. They can and they do. But they do think twice (hopefully) before seriously endangering or damaging national economies. There are also several ways how banks can virtually increase the amount of currency and produce inflation (and then a crash) - look at the financial crisis 2007-2008 etc. (Not to mention 1920-ies...) So, not much difference to IRL either. It seems very well possible and applicable. And it makes the game interesting all the more. Especially the considerations of our financial government here and the strong parallels to RL Correct, but frivolous devaluation of currency can damage and even crash it. Same as IRL. Not correct because of the limited time. And on the other side, IRL the resources are also virtually unlimited. Think of the space, energy and resources of the universe. Similar. Astonishingly similar.
I did not say that they couldn't. I said that they can not whenever they want. Which is a true statement. They have economist, that are hopefully smarter than either of us, who advise them on when to do so. If they did it whenever they wanted it would cause real havoc to the economy. It is based on advise and judgement of when it would be most beneficial or least destructive to do so. I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Here are the main reasons. 1) You can go to the empire shop and purchase goods that are unlimited and created without any effort from anyone. 2)I can create an iron farm, that after creation will drop iron magically into my lap for an unlimited amount of time. I don't even have to be at my computer for it to happen. (BTW: I am pro farm. I have no intention of arguing with those who aren't. My statement makes it sound like I think farms are in some way op or take no effort to complete. They are a beautiful and challenging part of this game, that when done correctly produce fantastic results. This is the core of what MC is. Taking effort, creativity, and know how to create things that become amazing.) 3) There are many resources, like iron from a farm, that are completely renewable with little to no intervention from the player after creation. Crops (particularly in 1.8), water, gold, and many many other things. Most of MC is about turning a small amount of resources into a large amount through apparent magic. IRL, you can not create things out of nothing. 4) The EMC economy is consisting of people from all around the world. This means that there are always people partaking in creating things out of nothing. So this severely limits your "limited time" argument. There is a consistent rotation of fresh people logging onto the empire at all hours of the day and night. 5) Its a game. There is nothing in it that people need. Every single purchase or acquisition is bought or gathered for the sole purpose of entertainment. As to your strange statement about there being unlimited resources IRL, we do not currently have access to any resource not on our current planet. As much as you like to get into debates about economy it strikes me as strange that you want to debate the very first rule you learn in the most basic economics class. By definition: Economy The large set of inter-related economic production and consumption activities which aid in determining how scarce resources are allocated.
This is actually a pretty good idea, now it will be easier for some people to make more money rather then struggle with it
Economy and scarce resources Exactly. Only scarce resources that are worth the effort induce economy. The fact that we have in-game economy implies that we have scarce resources. One is good at mining diamonds, the other at faming cows. 10 leather for a diamond? Deal? It is about that scarce resources, the other ones do not matter much. Are we in creative? You can technically, but it is not a reasonable thing to do. If people would do it to a larger extent, then the resources would not be scarce and there would be no economy. We would play creative instead of survival. Farms aren't danger to economy And cause cheap production / overproduction of iron. So iron becomes less scarce and less valuable. That does not change the essence of the economy, but only the production costs (which are still greater then zero!) and the market value of iron. That doesn't matter much. As long as there are scarce resources worth the effort and as long as people can specialize in production of some of them, they will trade and compete. Create matter out of energy? Oh, there, people are very creative. For example ... an argument? (And even sell it ) Then think of all different kinds of taxes selling you thin air. And if you discount the needed time and energy, all sorts of wonderful things can be created. Even matter can be created from energy, just that won't likely directly influence economy in the near future. Fresh people making fresh things? But they do not create much more than they consume! When a player produces a surplus, they will try to exchange it for items they need to complete their in-game goals. If they do have a surplus, they will adapt their goals. Or donate it to the people who will take over. The limit is not only the time, but also the skill and capacity to adapt. So is IRL. If you mean fresh people who would like to join the economy, there are plenty. Few thousand die each year while trying. Its a game! But the game is "survival". So we play as if our in-game avatars would strive for survival and compete in the in-game economy. We slip into roles and participate in the community and the economy. It is not "Space invaders." At least for the most of the players I guess. (Although there is "mob arena" for that kind of entertainment. ) Unlimited? There are tons of diamonds around there IRL, just not so easy to find / dig. The limiting factors are time, energy, knowledge, skill... Politicians and bankers are considerate and reasonable people ; ) Perhaps not whatever, nor wherever nor whenever, but the history of money printing and hyperinflation - and damaged and ruined economies tells a tale that all this was not invented in on-line gaming.
WOW !! Who would have thought that an Economics lesson could be derived from such a silly game In my opinion, the bottom line is this ..... What do you actually need Rupees for? To pay the rent on your plot? To go to the Grocery store for food? Perhaps to put gas in your Car? See where this is going? While one can certainly draw IRL references to this example, the ONLY thing I see a player needing rupees for is ....to use the Vault to transfer supplies from Server to Server. I can't think of a single other reason. While it is nice to be able to purchase items, it is certainly not necessary for gameplay or survival here in the Empire. To me, the rupee thing is more of a Luxury. Through diligence and hard work, one can certainly build a surplus of rupees with which to shop around for whatever. Other than the Promotional items (which each player gets one of), the real heart of the issue is ..."Man, I need a ton of {insert your items here} - I suppose I could go out and collect/farm/gather/barter for all I need OR I could go and purchase someone's else's efforts (and ultimately the item needed)." Plain and simple. Without any sort of Plot Tax, Wilderness Fee, Mini-Games Entrance Fee, Server Jumping Cost, or any of 50 other ways to incur some sort of daily need for rupees, to me all the rest of the discussion here boils down to "want" vs. "need". I learned early on that there truly is no need for rupees, but rather a basic desire to actually have rupees. I find it rather amusing that from Day 1, each player (including myself) has this internal dialogue that "I need to get rupees" or "What can I do to earn rupees". For me, once I learned that I truly don't need them, the rest is gravy. I became more task oriented, and especially during the building process, found my time in Empire to be rather segmented - especially when I've run out of the materials I needed to build. This concept in itself changes the game for me daily, and causes me to laugh every time I see someone say "I'm bored". A second real difference to IRL here is ...a player can certainly abandon the rupee and fend for themselves. IRL we call these people "homeless". I find no reason to visit other Servers for materials, so there truly is no need here. Any player at any time can choose to find whatever they need in a rather large, rich, ever changing Wilderness. This certainly does NOT happen IRL, and the real difference is that, from a central location, a Civilization will forage in a circular pattern, spiraling outward as the depletion of Natural Resources causes them to. This is what ...5th grade American Indian studies? While I agree the Wilderness has a "finite" number of items, the fact that it re-sets eliminates the pressure to collect what's closest before spiraling outward. To suggest any Wilderness, at any given time, is depleted of {insert item} is 9 times out of 10 inaccurate. And when I say "Wilderness" ...I'm talking Wastelands - the Frontier is a totally different animal. Following this discussion is an interesting study in players. I appreciate those who have continued to offer their take on this issue, and find the discussion in general to be rather healthy and somewhat informative for those who may not be familiar with the concept. Just remember people, as in life, you get OUT of it what you put IN to it
You're talking of the initial setup of the game, where you have "free rupees" and the "empire shop". That is not an economy, but just a way to let players choose the "free" items they get according to their supporter status. It was just a way to sell in-game goods for out-of-game money. Oh! Conspiracy theories? Nah. Believe me. This is just the inflation. It would be very risky to even try to corner the market. As soon as the price rises, more people would switch to production - and there are enough people who can produce. What makes you think so? Can you give us some numbers there? What is currency and what to do with it: -> Barter Economy, -> Currency. There have been shop finding tools around since years and since some times several with ability to process rupee logs. The full potential can be exploited once players would be able to easily submit rupee logs without revealing their password. That's a misunderstanding. Economy is about exchange and development. Why would one want to disturb that? That is a reference to Aikar's decision to make it easier for new players, for the "poor", to make the start for them easier. At the same time inflation devaluates rupees, so people who hoard rupees lose. So, it can be seen as a kind of "take from the rich and give to the poor." This has understandable motives / reasons, but it is matter of opinion if that is really a good thing for new playsers / "the poor". Whatever you make out of it. To be able to trade in a convenient way. -> Barter Economy, -> Currency. BTW, I don't think you'll be making happy and returning customers with a price of 35k for a Fortune 3 Efficiency 5 Unbreaking 3 pick. That is very true!
can anyone tell me when the shop is going to update? i have like 2 stacks of diamond ore that needs to be sold for a high price xD
Regarding the diamonds, this is skyrocketing the diamond market already lol! At 2000 on SMP1, he sells them for 130r and buys for 120r!
And what you are missing here is exactly what that price represents. If I can sell that pick for that price ....I will sell it. If not .... I keep it. Either way, it's a win-win for me. Your addressing of my recent post, concept by concept, appears as if you're out for an argument, rather than simply recognizing another's point of view. It appears as though you are simply on the opposite side of the discussion from me - using references to new players as "poor" - again, any new player can go out and collect anything they want/need for free. The only area they may be "poor" is in their work-ethic, effort, or ability to embrace the game at its most fundamental level. Your reference to Barter Economy multiple times is beneath my concepts. Think a bit outside the "boundaries" of Economics structure, and I believe my points you've quoted are valid. Currency-Schmurrency ....why buy it when I can go get it or make it ....plain and simple. Rupees mean nothing to me because I am not afraid to go out and get it. I don't need to buy anything - therefore I do not need rupees. My philosophy. While this concept certainly does not translate IRL, it certainly applies to the Empire. Convenience, to me, is more of a luxury - and I believe I did say that earlier. That "take from the rich, and give to the poor" comment is way off base. I believe the real goal here is to make it easier for players to begin, get settled, and return to the Empire day after day. To allow them an easier time in getting started, allowing them to experience the Empire and all it's glory, and to have them want to return tomorrow. That .... is a true business model. In any case, I'm certainly no Economics Professor, but I found this discussion interesting because of my point of view ...and decided to share it here. In a Shop Economy, supply and demand is King. It's what keeps me busy ...using my Shop formula .... 10 minutes worth of "work" yields me 1000's of rupees ...and people continue to return because my supply meets their demand. As of late, I have found that to be true no matter what the price. And when I see things going like hotcakes, I bump the price up a bit. That is, of course, until I have a back-log of material, then I drop it back down. I have disdain for those who use my Shop as a money maker selling to other Shops, and try to avoid that as much as possible. While it's not possible to negate it, I'd rather my effort go to someone's need rather than to someone out to make a quick buck. It has been an evolutionary endeavor for me, and I get comments (from both sides) to that effect. I believe my comment on us all being able to bring the Economy to it's knees is also accurate. While it certainly has a minor correlation to IRL (boycotts), if we all chose to simply stop buying, we would be banking rupees, selling our wares to buy shops (thereby lessening those with rupee surplus) and in effect, balancing the rupee and the Economy ...wouldn't we? Shop prices would drop dramatically, to increase business and because of high supply, and we'd be on the flip-side. We could, in effect, swing the pendulum back the other way. It would take a group effort, but it could be done. Again, my opinion- there is no "misunderstanding" here at all. In this particular instance, one can choose to join the Economy OR fend for yourself and ignore it - and the Empire Economy can be ignored. Either way, you survive on YOUR terms - a luxury IRL does not offer without real consequences.
... an interesting discussion. It seems to me that you have an interesting point of view and opinions, but I do not really understand it. (That's why I've checked your shop and noticed that 35k price tag. It surely is extraordinary - around 5x the market price. But that was just a side note.) You mean rupees are not essential to you, but you use them and you have a shop. And I assume you do buy stuff, so you do trade. How do you value that opportunity to trade with others? What is the value of the opportunity to do that in a convenient way and not to have to resort to barter? Very nicely said. Sure it is, but it is matter of opinion if it is good to make the game easier. I don't understand "bring the Economy to it's knees" in order to "balancing the rupee and the Economy". It sounds kind of "ruin it in order to heal it." So one group of players would supply all the others for free. They get the rupees, but do not use them, so they are getting nothing in return for the stuff. That group could be called "miners" or "suppliers", the others are "the creative." That is very interesting. Shop prices would go down, yes. Continue please, what happens then?
