Fake Horse Problem :/

Discussion in 'Empire Help & Support' started by ArtemisV, Jan 3, 2014.

  1. I bought a horse from xHaro_Der for 10k that had 140 speed, when I spawned it, this happened:

    Apparently Haro never spawned it, but left it in a chest after he bought it from an auction that he split with Astrayalien. He doesn't remember who the person who auctioned it is. I'm mad because I just spent 10k on this horse, and I'm sure Haro is mad because he spent money in the auction for a horse that ended up having 95 speed after it was "returned to normal speed". I would like my 10k back no matter what happens, just so everyone knows. :eek:

    The only reason I bought the horse was because a moderator told me that they found a 138 speed horse out in the wild, which means that there can be natural horses with 130+ speed. How are we supposed to know which horses are natural and which ones are glitched?
  2. Two horses had splash speed potions used on them then breeded together. This egg came out of it, and the idea was to stop it by returning to normal the speed. Only horses at 140 and above can come out of this I believe, so these ones were turned back. I would wait for staff to sort this one out.
  3. This is the first I have heard of this. Is this something that works in single player also? Is this the "glitch" that people found after Horses first were introduced?

    I'm wondering why would this be illegal? We have splash potions. We can throw them at mobs. We have Horses. We can breed Horses.

    The problem seems to be that we can get offspring with above normal stats, but the means by which this is done is completely normal. There are plenty of similar things we do in Minecraft where we play with game mechanics. This doesn't seem any different. Why would we expend server resources and programming time disabling it? What am I missing?
    EpicMinerMan321 and mba2012 like this.
  4. Doing this exploit took advantage of server mechanics with eggification - and players were able to keep multiplying the stats by throwing potions on them and eggifying them. This in a since - made some horses too op, giving some players an advantage to travelling halfway across the wild in like a few seconds; This is partially an economy based server - So misinterpreting stats on a horse/donkey ... is technically misleading/giving false information aka scamming.
    607, mba2012, FDNY21 and 1 other person like this.
  5. I see. I did not consider that they could do it again to each generation of offspring. Splashing a Horse with a potion then breeding it is something anyone can do without breaking any rules that I know of. There are lots of things we do that take advantage of server mechanics and all of them usually involve Rupees. If anyone can do it, then there is no real advantage gained over other players. So I still don't understand why it is illegal?

    By misinterpretation, do you mean misrepesentation? If someone sold one of these as something other than what it was, that is misrepresentation, which is the original thread topic. I'm questioning why the Horse's stats are being forced lower by the server at all. If not for that, these guys wouldn't be tossing around responsibility for bringing this Horse into the world like it's a hot potato.
    EpicMinerMan321 likes this.
  6. The reason that it's illegal is (essentially) this (although this is a simplified version):

    When you splash potion a horse, the horse has a little note put on it saying "this horse has had a splash potion used on it. Don't increase its stats if another one is used on it", as well as increasing the stat of the potion.

    When the horse was eggified, the horses potion-affected stats were saved in the egg, but not the note. When people unegged the horse, it would have the higher stats, but not the note telling potions to not work.

    This meant people could repeatedly splash and egg horses, allowing some people to create horses with speed in the thousands.
    Bro_im_infinite, Pab10S and mba2012 like this.
  7. THOUSANDS??!!??!!??
  8. Even over 9000
  9. The short answer to this, is that it's an exploit.

    Technically, ANYONE can create a sand generator, but that doesn't mean we'd allow it. :)
    southpark347, FDNY21 and mba2012 like this.
  10. By reading the code for horses, the absolute maximum one can legitly obtain by breeding is 135 and that is the most impossible probability in the world to do that.

    You have better chances ending world hunger and poverty by snapping your fingers than breeding a 135 horse from something less than 135.

    Horse breeding works by averaging a random number with the absolute max of 135 + horse 1 + horse 2, WITHOUT potion effects being considered.

    I also see nothing in the code to support higher than 135 for natural spawning, so there must of been some confusion there.

    Please work with moderators on getting the transactions reversed.
    Monster_ likes this.
  11. I understood Jack's explanation earlier to mean that this is taking advantage of a bug where potion effects are saved during egging or breeding. That's the part I was missing for it to make sense for me.

    I think you meant this for the OP.
  12. Yes, while it is upsetting to have a horses' stats reversed after buying a high speed horse, it is definitely an exploit and shouldn't be allowed. I hope other people read this and think twice before buying a horse over 130 speed. Also, Aikar, Haro Der refunded my 10k, but he's still out 10k because of that auction. Astrayalien is also out some money, and astrayalien doesn't yet know that those horses are glitched/worthless. I'm going to pm him now that I've remembered. If you guys could work with them on getting a refund, that'd be great. All the proof is in the auction. :eek:
  13. It was publicized before that 140%+ horses would be reset due to being glitched, and they are now "collector" items. In auctions it is assumed that the bidder knows what they are buying, so I don't think it would be fair to punish the auction holder. They never said they were usable. If something seems too good to be true, then a forum search should be done.

    If people can sell netherhound eggs, another exploit created item, then there should be no punishment against people selling useless horse such as these.
  14. The Seller was responsible for listing the true stats of the Horse, but did not.
    eklektoi likes this.
  15. Well they did provide picture evidence of the egg stats, and they did mention that it was a horse created by an exploit/glitch (albeit vague). I wouldn't throw all the blame on the auctioneer, there was fault on both sides. I would not consider it staff required refund worthy, as the buyers/users who won the auction were fully capable of knowing horse limits. The auctioneer should compensate them because of the misunderstanding and miscommunication, but they shouldn't be forced to.
    Pab10S likes this.
  16. I didn't know at the time, but some of the horses were less than 140 (eg 132), I believe they are legal after I searched the forum. A 140 horse turned into 95 after spawning, clearly useless.

    Sure, we got scammed, but should have done more research. I'm happy to keep as collector item and will not resell.
  17. The auctioneer failed to mention anything about the horses being purely useless and collectible, clearly on the topic only bare minimum information was given.

    I've refunded ArtemisV the 10k and it doesn't really affect me too much, but I mean that's just not right for him to try and auction horses like that and never mentioning anything (therefore implying they're legit) of said exploit.
  18. I didn't imply they were useless because I had spawned them a few times and hopped on them and they didn't reset. I thought it was only my 175% horse that got reset and my 140s and 130s would stay. now I realize that they didn't
    EDIT: if you didn't already know, I was the auctioneer
  19. http://empireminecraft.com/threads/nether-hound.34250/
    There are few differences in the two auctions. Both, when spawned, lose the ability to kept in original form. Both are exploit items, with the netherhound egg auction specifically stating that many times, and even with a mod approving the sale of these exploit eggs. No where in the OP (for both of them) does it mention that they are exploit items and that they are completely useless for anything other than collectibles. The only major difference between the items were the times they were created. The netherhound was more recent, so more people know of how to treat the item.

    But what would have happened if a player thought he could buy it and have it as a pet on his res, so he tries to use it and it instantly despawns. Does he deserve a refund because he didn't know how to use/treat the item? On the side of empathy, I would think he should get a refund. But on the side of responsibility, he should not since the bidder is responsible for knowing what they are buying. That and buying an item mentioned as illegal/exploit, trying to use it, and finding out it doesn't work comes with a fine line of who is more at fault.

    It was stated by a bidder that horses over 140 were considered illegal, and it was stated by the auctioneer that it was obtained before it was fixed, implying that it was an exploit item.

    There were faults on both sides, and no one was innocent in the situation.