European Economical Crisis?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by Gawadrolt, Jun 30, 2015.

  1. In the US the "alternative media" that runs side by side with various CIA cointelpro disinformation sites is talking about how the european economy has collapsed worse than it has since the great depression in the past two weeks. Is there ANY validity to these claims? I understand the economic crisis propagated in Greece... they never have been very good with money. Greece isn't the entirety of Europe though. Have you noticed several of your family members being laid off from work recently, recently= within the past two weeks? Have you noticed escalated police and or military presence? Have you noticed hyper inflation? I haven't seen anything to substantiate claims that the european economy has fallen as bad as some are putting on. I figured with all the people from the other side of the pond on here maybe I could get some REAL information and not news BS or CIA disinformation programs or crazy nuts that wish that they knew more than they do.
  2. I don't think that is true, the Euro had a minor loss in the last few months, the only economy that is pretty bad atm is Greece's. But then, i don't claim to know anything about economics, just watching news every morning for the past 10 years.

    Just my 2 Euros (get it? Euro joke, haha......)
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  3. Thanks for the feedback akaikee! Anyone else have anything to add? My understanding of Greece's situation is pretty bad as well but it isn't new. Greece has seemed to have trouble since even before the 2008 global crash.
  4. Well, not any money problems over here in England
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  5. I believe the United Kingdom is actually getting better, not worse BUT I cannot comment on anyone other than Greece. Greece have been refused a request on another loan from the EU so they are in a bit of a pickle. Haven't heard about any other countries having a problem.
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  6. The Euro is different in every country its in. The country who gets the worse side effects of the Euro is Greece, who want to leave the Eurozone but (to my understanding), the European Union won't let them. Or something. Either way, the EU isn't doing anything for Greece. To my understanding, the Euro has taken a minor bump in the past month, but it's nothing out of the blue or worth talking about.

    Over here in the UK, the Pound is at the best its ever been (0.01% inflation rate FTW :p). The only way I can see it taking a small hit is if we get the 'yes' vote to leave the European Union (which is apparently being rigged according to the organisers of the referendum themselves, the voting age isn't being lowered to 16 like it usually is for referendums, and people who are genuinely affected by the UK leaving the EU aren't allowed to vote in it either...) in 2017, and even then it will only be small and probably won't happen anyway. The UK has distanced itself as much as possible from the Eurozone and the EU as a whole as much as it can. Besides Tories messing with the currency, attempting to rip apart the state welfare, and giving the rich tax shelters - nothing in the UK. Those media outlets are chatting BS.
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  7. There most certainly is.

    Just look at the value of the Euro in comparison to the Dollar. And I'm talking a larger timeline. Check this link, Euro value compared to the Dollar in a period of 2 years. That's not looking too well for the Euro right there, these history charts don't lie. Let's just say the economy is looking pretty stable almost everywhere on the world except Europe.

    Greece is involved, but in my opinion only but a part of the problem. First of all: where do you think the money to sustain Greece comes from? That's coughed up by the rest of the European countries, and some of those (here's looking at Holland) already have their own debts to deal with. I don't think it's coincidence that we're seeing an economic change and that Holland has recently raised its taxes from 16% to 21%. Worse; we have a low level tax (for essential products such as food and such) which sits at 6% and a high value tax (now 21%). There's already talk going on to make those equal and set them both at 21%.

    Those decisions aren't just made because of the economic issues within Holland itself. The gigantic requirements put on our country from Brussels most certainly is involved here, and it's definitely not good for our economy at all.

    Unemployment is rising here, dozens of (sometimes also very well known and widely established businesses) have already gone broke (Free Record Shop being a very well known name in Holland) or are dealing with severe problems (V&D, also known as Vroom & Dreesman). And there are plenty of companies which leave the country.

    If you want to buy a house (if you can afford it) then now is the time because, even though I may exaggerate a little here, you can see "for sale" signs in almost every larger street you go to. Mind you: it sits quite close to the truth.

    Things are not going well in Europe. And it's for a well known reason why you see a large increase in anti-European opinions and feelings.

    Actually they were pretty competent with money, but simply ran their economy different from other European countries. Greece would often devalue (or re-value) their currency to deal with economic issues. Sometimes going down, otherwise going up. Sometimes this went into the ridiculous of course (like how you used to get 100,000 Italian lire's easily for just a small amount of cash) but they still managed to sustain themselves.

    Although their previous currency (the Drachme) may not have been the strongest around, the direct result was also that going to Greece was pretty affordable, automatically turning it into a very popular vacation destination. And tourists bring money....

    But now that Greece has been assimilated (yes, I used this word on purpose) into the Euro they no longer have this freedom of devaluation. And that's one of the reasons why we're now seeing the misery happening in Greece.

    Europe wants to be like the US, but failed to realize (or ignored it, which is what I believe) that the several economies which we had (like the Guilder, Deutsche Mark, Italian Lire, etc.) weren't very compatible. And forcefully bringing those together... Enter the financial drama's which we're suffering from now.

    I've noticed a steady increase in unemployment in the Netherlands, yes. I've seen dozens of previously healthy companies go up in smoke, some are still not going too well. Even our police department is suffering because although prices in the overall keep rising they haven't had any increase to their paychecks for over 5 years now.

    The start of the Tour le France is held in the Netherlands. As it is right now there is a chance that the Dutch police will seize the opportunity and use that to demonstrate against their employer. Rumor has it that they plan to subdue the tour caravan (all the cars and such) to an inspection, thus basically hindering them.

    This is a world-wide event mind you. And this is all about money (a large part of it anyway).

    I suppose one could place this into an escalated police presence, but that's stretching it.

    Hyper inflation, well, I showed you the charts earlier.

    No, things are not going all too well, and we're definitely in a very big economic depression here.
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  8. Beautiful post, but dollar to euro ratio over the past few years isn't a crash. Also most of the problems you are stating are not euro related at all, more so a thing that happens all over the world. In Germany for example we have an ongoing mail delivery strike for the past 3 weeks (or more ), not because the euro is bad, but because the employers do not pay enough money because they want to maximize their profits.

    Either way, the Anti Europe or pro Europe discussion is a long and tedious one I'm not Interessted in having because both sides are extreme against the other. I have my own opinions, be it a little since I'm from one of the wealthier countries.
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  9. Thanks for this post. I had no clue about any of this. I'm very anti-European Union because of the stuff they do to my own country, who want nothing to do with the European Union any more and I kind of think (and partially hope) we'll be leaving the EU in 2017.

    Your point on the EU wanting to be like the United States is an excellent one and one of the big things I have as a 'this is why I hate them' reason :p
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  10. The problem with Greece though is that the government wants to spend way more than it brings in, and outright refuses to change. Even on the verge of a default they will not cut pensions to former employees. When Greece joined the EU a few years back their economy went way up. Unfortunately this didn't last forever but they still spend money like they are in that golden age. For governments and people alike, you have to bring in more money than you spend, and you can be in debt temporarily if it will result in more growth(gov taking a loan to build schools), but you can't borrow until you drop.
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  11. That's what people used to say about Free Record shop (a music/record store with shops in almost every larger city in Holland) as well. Now they're out of business.

    Don't get me wrong: I realize that this is a national (Dutch) issue and will most certainly agree that we're also seeing a large increase of, what I like to call, a "bonus culture". Where the head honcho's allow themselves large paychecks and bonuses whereas the 'regular' employers have to deal with regular wages. Sure, it happens.

    But there's a different side to that story as well. Because; why is it required that people get an increase in their paychecks? One big part of that process is because prices in general are rising. And that process is something which you see happening at a larger scale. This has always happened and even before the Euro, sure, but ever since we got the Euro the inflation in every European country can now affect other Euro countries as well. And that's the bigger problem which we're having right now.

    I'm pretty sure that Germany isn't as badly affected right now as some other countries are. No joking: people in Holland can actually save money by going to Germany to do their shopping and fill up the car with gas. If you go from Utrecht (Dutch city) to Germany (lets say to Kleve) then people can already save dozens of Euro's on that in comparison to getting their stuff in Holland at a local store. Thats roughly a 100 - 120km drive. And this is happening...

    But the thing is; when comparing Germany and Holland it's safe to say that the German financial reserves were a lot better than those of Holland. And well, Germany is one of the largest European economies in the first place.

    But even Germany is seeing its share of issues. At some time in the past I remember reading a (German) newspaper(the financial section) where it was revealed that although Germany did see an increase in production at that time (0,8%) the actual expectations sat at 2,3%. Which was partly a result of a decrease in export of products. And most of the German products are exported to.... other European countries. Where quite a few have financial issues of their own.

    In the end the Euro ties all of those problems together. Like we're seeing now: chances are high that Europe's "investment" into Greece is going to result in a gigantic loss. And some countries will feel that more heavily than others.

    But just because you don't see the effects in your direct surroundings doesn't mean they aren't there. Because now that we're all part of Europe you can no longer afford to simply look at your direct surroundings anymore. Now you'll also need to pay attention to other countries to get a real good impression on the state of affairs.

    And, like I said, things do not look good in Holland.
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  12. Thanks for the info and the link Shell. My question wasn't about the larger, year to year picture but about the past two weeks. I don't know how well the Euro represents the overall european economy and I understand that currencies are intentionally artificially inflated to keep people from seeing disaster in some cases. Your link does not seem to support the idea that there has been a significant event happen in the past two weeks, most particularly two to three weeks ago. There is a dip more recently but it seemed to be temporary, from the link anyways. There is only a few economies in the world that have come out smelling like roses(and even that would be an exaggeration for most of those) in the past seven years. We are still in a global financial economic uh oh from that. I have seen things get better in some economies and others try to act like it had no effect and then tank a year or two later after 2008 but we are still feeling it.

    On the subject of Greece, I have heard rumblings of Russia or Russian satellite states considering footing the bill to gain some pull within Greece. It has been my observation as it seems is put on in some of these comments that the European Union isn't exactly all that thrilled that they have to deal with Greek economical antics. I wonder how a Russian bailout would look in Greece. Probably wouldn't change much if anything.
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  13. Nah, the only major event in the past weeks which I can think of would be Greece. But that has been going on for quite some time now and only a few hours ago has it become official that Greece won't be able to pay off its debt. This did become obvious some time ago (could be 2 weeks) but everyone could see this one coming anyway. It wasn't a surprise.

    Another major issue would be the heavily increasing unemployment rate in both Greece as well as Spain (roughly 23%). Just for comparison: Holland is also seeing an increase, as I've mentioned above, but we're only around 7%.

    But all of those events have an impact on the Euro and its value, and that has a cascading effect on the product export of the other Euro countries (talking about export to non-Euro countries obviously).

    So yah, nothing ground breaking.

    Well, it's a fact that the Greece prime minister has visited Moscow several times already to discuss their options. The rumors I've read is that Moscow would seriously consider it. However, recent events (the Greece prime minister who now states that he's willing to comply to the European demands) seem to show otherwise.

    Well, it that would happen then Greece would most certainly leave the Eurozone and get their own currency back. And I think that they'll have a much better chance of surviving that way. At the very least they can devalue / 'revalue' their currency like they always have. And if they manage to get their position back as one of the most preferred places to go on vacation then they'll have a good reliable source of income once more.

    But even so... Here's the real problem with these things: we'll only get to learn the real story in 10 - 15 years or so. Usually when it's way too late to hold the people responsible accountable for their actions and decisions.

    And I have a hunch (just an assumption, sure) that some things are not going as we're being told. Not at all....