Circle stone generators, are they allowed?

Discussion in 'Empire Help & Support' started by BigDavie, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. Obsidian gen banned? :(

    changing wool with that damage changer dont work for me :/
    So I go googling and found out bukkit fixed it :/ (latest bukkit, after "R3" thing. they said)
  2. Oh sorry, misread your post :confused:
  3. No it's not.

    I think it's a case of performance tweaking, ie. using a "damage value" in an item where it's meaningless for something else. For example, if there were two fields in an item packet, one which only gets used on some items and another that only gets used in other items, might as well use the same field for different things and save a few bytes on packets. IE, i don't think in this case it has anything to do with damage.
    BloodDisciple likes this.
  4. Obsidian generators are not banned. We are only referring to them in this thread.

    Good job circle stone generators where not allowed. I'd have pulled my hair out trying to get it to work.
  5. I really think circle stone should be available in the /shop. I would love to build a few things with it. Consider, we can already get chain armor and the "11" disc. Why not circle stone?
  6. no no... please, I don't want you to say sorry for anything, I'm really just trying to iron out any misinterpretation that might skew the discussion.

    So far we know for sure that circle stone gens are not acceptable, and that obsidian gens are acceptable.

    I don't really think that any of us want to pull our hair out over this. It's just that the thread brought up valid questions and valid discussion.

    So I read the thread and I got interested in the real criteria which determine whether the use of a gen is violation or not. :confused:At this point, "cuz we said so" might suffice... really. But since reasons have been put forth, there are some different and conflicting justifications used here. I'm interested first just in what the criteria is, not why it is. The debate on the logic behind them can come later. So even if it's just something decided upon subjectively by admins (just based upon their judgment), then I'm satisfied with that, and that establishes a frame of reference from which the discussion can be productively pursued.

    Some of the reasons hit upon
    • Whether "damage values" change seems to be the highest lvl answerat this point... my questions on this stem from that I'm not sure what that is save an assumption on what it takes to break the pre and post gen items.
      • I've only found it in relation to wool and dye "...a secondary data field (beyond the item ID of 254), which is also used to store the damage for tools and so is commonly referred to as a “damage value”
    • Also referenced as justification is whether an item is merely altered or EXCHANGED, rather than created out of thin air. In that case, there are many gens/dup glitches which have been outlawed (rail glitch, etc.) which just make stuff (and it is easy for us to understand reasons behind this). But (for example) cobble gens DO NOT EXCHANGE items, but rather create them. Those are accepted, and that should kick the exchange of items reasoning out of the convo.
    • Also, the gen which is the topic of this thread EXCHANGES a stone brick block for a circle brick block, much as an obs. gen. EXCHANGES redstone dust to obs. This criteria, were it in fact the point upon which the decision was made, would actually justify the use of circle stone gens.
    So somebody stop me here, and let's hear what it is right?
    NurglesRott and nnnnmc1 like this.
  7. The "Damage Value" of an item is actually a data value. For example, those numbers you have to use when you make a shop for a type of potion? Those are damage values. The color of wool is stored as the "Damage value" (block data) in addition to the block ID of regular wool. This allows all the colors of wool to maintain the same Block ID in the code so wool is wool is wool, and the color is just a consequence of a differing damage value.

    This is also the same concept of why sheep that you eggify don't retain their wool color when hatched, because the egg doesn't store that value.

    Blocks/Items that use damage values to differentiate different types while still using the same block/item ID are things like:

    Logs, Stone Brick, Wool, Saplings, Potions, Coal/Charcoal (both the same item, but charcoal has a damage value of 1), dyes, etc.
    BloodDisciple likes this.
  8. Yes, this is what I was trying to get at, logically the process is the same, but the consequences are different. By this logic, a machine that converts lumps of coal into diamonds would also be perfectly acceptable.

    Stone circles aren't available in Survival mode. We don't know what they're going to be used for (do we?) they could be something super rare and therefore valuable. This I think is also a good case not to make them available in /store for the time being.
    NurglesRott and BloodDisciple like this.
  9. Okay now that's easy to follow (I love this raenis guy, with his shop stock databases and Block IDs... is this stuff on a long-list somewhere? something I can scroll down?).

    But you can see how a misinterpretation of something called "damage value" might come about, right? I wonder what the origin of the term was that caused it to be tied to damage, rather than just some term used for a Block ID extension.

    That said, what we can derive from JustinGuy's verdict is that items which are manipulated to add/alter damage value aren't allowed... and considering that redstone and obsidian are entirely different blocks (correct?) then we can know that this event hasn't occurred when we use water to make wine, so to speak...
  10. I think the term came from it's original purpose, to store the damage value of tools.

    I remember Notch saying at some point that the number of block types were limited, so perhaps the recycling of this damage value was to work around that limitation.
    nnnnmc1 and BloodDisciple like this.
  11. Minecraft wiki has all the Item Id's listed
  12. It is available :p
    25r each
    1440r for a stack of 64
    contruction zone. in a corner.

    EDIT : it's near the cobble
  13. That it does. :D It's a super helpful resource for all things minecraft.

    The information you're asking about is largely contained here:
    I would say that JustinGuy's verdict is precisely that. Using the glitch to change a block's damage value is circumventing the need to find the material, and nothing is lost in the process. When you use the obsidian generator, it consumes the redstone dust (which is a completely different ID from obsidian, as you surmised) in the process, so you'll still have to buy or mine redstone before you can use it to exchange for obsidian in a generator.

    I have a feeling the damage value glitch had something to do with the code running behind and adding the damage value of the piston extension to the damage value of the block placed if it was moved quickly enough, thereby changing the damage value of the placed block to something different. The code likely also checks against invalid values to prevent crashing from manipulating blocks that don't exist, which would logically loop the damage value back to its lowest valid value if the value it was assigned was invalid, hence cycling the views of the block if it continued to be ran through the glitch.
  14. Your signature is awesome ;)
  15. it would be more effective as

    /thread set flame false

    no need for the "pset" or "everybody" value..
  16. * blush * thank you :)
    ISMOOCH likes this.