[Denied] Top of the Nether

I used this in single player a ton. It was the location of my best gold farm.
I do see how one would view it as cheating, but I personally don't. It is like iron farms, correct? You are abusing a game mechanic that was intended (iron golems spawning in villages and ended pearls moving you up) for your own profit. I see it in the exact same light. Both were attempted to be taken out and both failed, and the minecraft community enjoys both "features" as intended. There are plenty other "features" in minecraft that were unintended, such as obsidian farms using string. Another example would be infinite villagers. There are plenty more features like these that were unintended but the community enjoys.

That is a +1 from me.

I don't particularly like the idea of players getting on top of the nether. The bedrock is there for a reason, and that is to keep players out. Like getting on top of the nether, Infinite villagers were not created on purpose, but there is also nothing implying that you aren't supposed to do it. I feel like that is just not how the game was meant to be, I think it is meant to have challenges everywhere you turn, but we all have our opinions

There was another recent thread about "Inflation" in our economy. Imagine the prices of gold if everyone built a gold farm on top of the nether, it would totally lose value

If Mojang didn't want players on top of the Nether, it would've stopped them from getting up there years ago.

I don't understand your inflation comment. If everyone had a highly productive gold farm, the price of gold would fall considerably as supply rose and demand fell. That's deflation, not inflation.

The bedrock is not necessarily meant to keep players out. The bedrock is there because the the nether was traditionally roofed with bedrock prior to the world height update. The nether was not converted to a 256 height world, so the bedrock is halfway between top and bottom. Something interesting to note is that it would have been incredibly easy for Mojang to block building on top of bedrock. All they would have to do is a simple height and world check, then deny if above Y 128 while in the nether. It is almost as if they challenged us to get up there.

The more I think about this, the sillier criticism seems. Does Mojang allow it? Yes. That's the most important point: Mojang has done nothing to stop the behavior in the YEARS it's been happening. Does it afford any player an advantage over others? No, because anyone can do it Then what's wrong with it? I can't think of a single reason it shouldn't be allowed.

The efficiency of an above-Nether gold farm is no different than the efficiency of a sugar cane farm, a mob farm, an xp grinder, or any other redstone-assisted activity. Should endermen farms be disallowed because they get me XP and ender pearls faster than I would be able to otherwise? Should below-Nether gold farms and blaze farms banned too? What about infinite paper trade villagers and auto-harvesting machines?

Maybe I am not educated enough on this to provide a strong debate, but I am still not a huge fan. I guess if anyone can do it it's fair

You have a very good point there. I think the thing that implies that we shouldn't use iron farms and gold farms for example is that majoring tried to remove them. Infinite villagers HAVE been removed.

If you have ever watched Minecraft on youtube, (like I used to) then you have probably heard of Etho. He does a lot of Minecraft but has other games like Terraria and Pixel Piracy. He is well respected enough to have a lot of famous farm designs, the most popular being his blaze farm. He built a gold farm above the nether in both his SP lets play and on the private Mindcrack server. That is probably why I sided with Terr in the first place.

I'm not sure if anybody has already said this, because I didn't feel like reading all the posts above this time. Anyway, this actually was possible in the past on EMC. They actually removed people getting up there intentionally. The reasons are unclear to me, but they're probably good reasons. My personal thought, getting above the roof of the nether is kind of a game breaker. You're able to travel very long distances with incredible ease, and you have tons of room to make mob farms without having to do any actual work beforehand. It's just something that actually deserves to be removed, which is probably why the EMC Staff removed this ability in the first place.

The point is, it used to be there, and it was removed intentionally, and will NOT be added back.

Although you can get there with vanilla usages, such as Enderpearls and even breaking the bedrock with Dark Oark Trees (Known by Mojang ever since the introduction of Enderpearls and Dark Oak Trees)

I was never removed. There were issues initially with people spawning up there when doing /nether and not being able to get down. They then added this to get them back down. It was not meant to be a restriction, but a fix.

First of all: I'm really indifferent to this issue. Personally I don't think the idea to allow players on top of the Nether is a good one, but if it would come to a vote then I wouldn't don't really care either way (edit: its why I didn't vote).

Having said that...

There is one thing I would like to comment on: the argument that: "If Mojang allows it then surely we should be able to use it too?". No offense but I think that argument is flawed by design.

This isn't about what Mojang does or doesn't allow, its all about how the possibilities on the server affect our gameplay. Nothing more, nothing less.

Think about it: Mojang never implemented options to lock chests or to prevent players from building somewhere. So within this reasoning one could also argue that Mojang never intended for us players to have residential protection, so those options should be removed.

I think we can all agree that it wouldn't be the greatest of ideas, sure, but if you only focus on what Mojang does or doesn't allow then well.. I think you'd be opening the floodgates.

So IMO you should focus solely on gameplay and how things affect that, not about what can or cannot already be done.

As always; just my 5 cents

I enjoy your argument, although my sole reasoning behind my siding is that all it costs is someone 4 Dark Oak Saplings to be able to build up on the Nether roof. I've never personally done this myself because I do enjoy a challenge, although I know some other players shoot for efficiency and I think it'd benefit all if they were able to use the roof to their liking. Although as you and many others have stated, I'm indifferent but with arguing for a side that I believe would help many others and do no damage to myself

No one has identified any way that it affects gameplay negatively. That Mojang allows it, and has for years, is evidence that it really can't.

Mojang may allow it but it was not intended. They have allowed it for years because it was a bug with no negative effect on legitimate play, so why use resources to fix it. At the time when the world height increased if you built a portal above 128 in the overworld it generated a portal above the bedrock. This was fixed by mojang as it could affect legitimate play. There is a bug, which I think is only on bukkit multiplayer, that can cause you to appear above the bedrock when you connect. Players were then accidentally trapped above the nether with no way down. Our solution was to make above the nether be part of spawn and allow players to save themselves with /nether. Some players started to take advantage of this by deliberately getting above bedrock thousands of blocks away and be able to get back to town instantly. This exploit was fixed by teleporting players to a nearby safe location.
If we removed the teleporting to a safe location when above the nether, those players who accidentally find themselves above the nether and are not equipped to get back below would be stuck there until they died (or sought staff intervention). This would affect their gameplay negatively.

Farming iron golems for iron wasn't initially intended either, but Mojang's inaction has made it intended.

I can't speak to whatever existed before I joined the server, but nothing in your post is a compelling reason not to allow people above the Nether. Stuck on top? Walk toward 0,0 and free yourself through one of the hundreds of holes that would inevitably be punctured in the bedrock if people were allowed above the ceiling.

You're trying to draw a distinction that doesn't exist. Both getting on top of the Nether and farming iron golems for iron were (a) initially unintended by Mojang and (b) allowed to remain in the game by Mojang. Whether one started as a "bug" is irrelevant.

I understand where you're coming from with this although this was denied so there isn't much need for you to continue arguing about it