To PvP or not to PvP?

If you're actually stashing all your important items like you said you were, this wouldn't be a problem. Even then, I have only been attacked once, and that was because I allowed it.

And even though loss of experience is bad, it can be easily recouped, which makes this less than a problem.

'Cuz I like it.

Again, you're referencing boxes, i'm talking about if i'm running back to base, I fall in a hole and a guy dumps gravel on my head and I sufficate and die. All my items are dropped i lose all my experience points and he picks up all my dropped items and walks away with them. Do i get all of it back including lost experience points? If the answer is no, then yes this system is no longer something I can agree with.

If someone takes crap out of my boxes, i could care less. I hide my boxes well and those who are in my area working with me I trust as it is, most of them have no clue where my stuff is either. Those that do, take my items all the time and that's because I gave them permission to do so. Have I once complained that I have lost items in the boxes? No, and it's not from a lack of missing items from my boxes I assure you of that. If Justin can implement the security of boxes in the wild that'll solve that problem, in the meantime I could care less.

When i'm running back to town to secure my items and I'm waylayed on the trip there, I want to be able to have some kind of recourse here. Either by way of adminsitration or by self preservation. I'm talking about something within your rule set here. If someone tries to kill me by dropping fire on me, or smothers my character and I die, they walk, and I don't fight back, that I'll get everything back including experience. That's all i'm asking here. Lets also assume I have a screenshot of it that clearly shows me being attacked by someone so that part of the situation isn't missed as well. Option 2 is that you enable PvP so i can fight back and prevent him from being able to kill me which I know you won't do. No point in rehashing that again...so if you can't agree to #1 then yeah I'll pull up my supporter status tonight and find another server because it's lame that you'd punish someone for following the rules when the rules prevent someone from doing exactly what they need to do prevent the situation from occuring. This seems like such an easy response here, but from what you posted above, the only thing you'll do is ban the guy so he can't do it again. If you're moderating the service, then you should at least restore the player to the original state before the assault, wouldn't you agree?

A few things to point out:

1. Suffocation can be easily avoided.
If the hole you are in is bigger than 1x2x1, it is extremely easy to avoid any form of death related to suffocation. That, and gravel takes less than a second to mine with a shovel.

2. PVP isn't prevalent in the Empire.
Plain and simply, it doesn't happen a lot. Definitely not enough to severely dent your profits. As I stated above, I have only been attacked once. This was before I was a Moderator, and it only happened because I was trying to prove somebody guilty of killing somebody else. Odds are, when you're trotting through the wild, you won't be attacked. You make this sound like a big problem.

That isn't the case. As much as you may want to deny it, the odds of you getting killed by somebody in the wild are extremely low, unless you are going on expeditions with complete strangers which you say you are not.

3. This is the system we have.
Take it or leave it. PVP does not work with the Empire, and how would the fact that you can stab somebody prevent them from pouring lava on you when you fall in a hole? You're in a hole. You cannot reach them. You still die. Your items are gone. Nothing changed. All that would be different is that now you have to worry about getting shot with arrows and ambushed whilst trucking your stuff back to town. Which is counterproductive, based on your argument.

4. This has been discussed too many times.
Every PVP related thread to ever exist in the history of the Empire has either been deleted or overwhelmingly unsupported. The staff (Senior Moderators / Administrators) has explicitly stated that PVP will not happen. The fact that you made a separate thread for this regardless of the lack of support on the 'New Rupees System' thread shows that you want your idea forwarded regardless of what the community thinks.

All in all, this is not good.
This is bad. There is nothing to be done regarding this situation.
It's part of survival.
It's part of the Empire.

Just want to add a few things to this.

I'm OCD about a few things. One of them is moderating. While the rules themselves are black and white, as Twitch said, I myself have done and will continue to do extensive research on situations up to my ability, especially when people follow the system correctly. In the case stated with tthreeoh above, I'm certain that he understands how things operate and if he were reported or banned for doing what he did, he would have sent an appeal in, which would have allowed us to look into it further. I think most here know me as a pretty fair guy, and looking into this non-problem past and other things I could use to investigate the situation, the conclusion would most likely have ended up being that he would have been let back. Though, I don't give this as permission for people to use PVP in hopes that this will always happen.

Another thing...As far as I know...the system you're speaking of, GokouZWAR, wouldn't really work, simply because of how Minecraft reads and logs certain things. I don't believe it keeps track of who set a specific fire or laid out some lava, so it wouldn't know to "trigger" a person for PVP, even if someone died due to that situation...and there are a lot of factors that might get in the way as well.

Let's say someone set a tree on fire to clear the floating leaves they can't reach and it accidently starts to spread to other trees (forest fire, we've all seen them). If that fire were to say spread over to someone that he couldn't see and kill him, now he's triggered for PVP, even though it was an accident? Same thing with lava. I'm sure there are instances where lava could be used legit and have it kill another person by accident. Then we have the people who would purposely jump into someone's lit fire, just to enable PVP on that person then have that person get jumped without knowing what happened.

Now, I know you're saying to yourself, but those instances are super rare and might happen all that much. Well, in terms of PVP, for the size we are, it doesn't happen all that much either, and the times they have, were taken care of. Unfortunately, we're not able to see what a person has on them (or had) when they die in the game, so we're not able to return things, but that's not a personal attack by any means, it's something we have to hold to every single person.

While I appreciate the discussion that's gone on here (even if we don't use the idea, discussions like this can and will spark new ideas that will work in someone), I still feel that PVP is not the way to go and would cause more issues than it would solve. However, for those that know Justin & I, or have gotten to know us recently from EMC, you can be sure that we always have our brains working, and as soon as we can figure out a way to solve a problem without causing more, we'll for sure bring it up.

Hope this helps.

This PvP is a bad idea. We already have enough to worry about like creepers and endermen so we dont need to have the worry of someone stabbing us in the back throughout day and night and stealing our stuff.

I'm sorry but when people become mods, I do respect your "authority", but so do those that are really messing the place up. I highly doubt that you yourselfs(admins and mods) would come across a situation such as this, or any other varient for that matter. It is easy to hold a "higher moral value", when it is your job and you are now literally removed from the situation.

and lets address what was said about me involved in PvP. First off lets define PvP.

Player vs Player is a situation where more than one player ingages in combat to inflict damage or Death.

Therefore by technicality I was never involved in PvP, as I never inflicted damage nor intended to.(you can read what I posted)

In this thread all I can truly see is win for the griefers and PvPers that attack innocent subjects.

so then... what do you do when a paying member hides them self on the map and throws instant damage splash potions at you from high up distance.... Go on being a Good Subject that's what.

Procedure for reporting: PvP

step one!
Don't Panic!

step two!
stop moving so your attacker has a better aim at you while you screenshot. They say a Picture is worth a thousand words... but really it's just worth your inventory.

Step three!
Die!

How many complaints do you see about this subject? I understand what you guys are trying to say. What we are trying to explain is we have the system we have. It works. Is it perfect? No. But what system is?

Your system of Let Pvp solve everything doesn't work either. It creates more problems / different problems. You get emotional people that now show this emotion in chat in negative ways. Or they take it out on others for no reason.

The only way i could see a pvp system work is a free-for-all-no-mods-at-all server. (believe it or not there would still be complaints)

This will be the last thing I say in this thread. If I find anyone, harming anyone, in any way, for any reason, I will ban you on the spot, and sort it out later. As long as I'm a mod that is.

oh sorry, I would like to also put that the Whole "mod and admin" thing what not directed at any, it was just a observation. I completely agree with what jeremy said on the whole topic.

which is why we are here to Discuss topics, not just condemn them as purely against the rules.

the issues here is that we have a loophole in the game system that still allows PVP, and the only Defense against it is being a good person and "treating others as you wish to be treated", which of course is the "Golden Rule".

as GokouZ had an idea about a PVP flag system, in all reality yes something like this would be the best kinda of solution, but also as Jeremy stated, the Server needs to know how to keep track of all this. but at the same time it need to filter out the changes not needed to keep track of. thats where it gets tricky(and from what I can understand EXTREMELY tricky), and even though you can still MAKE a system for it, it doesn't mean it would be efficient for the server to run smoothly.

in other words.... it can happen... you just need to figure out the coding and get it bummed(down to as little code as possible) enough to be effective and efficient for the server.

OK I'm gonna take a moment to point this out, you are not reading what is going on here.

where did I insist on a PVP system?

I can honestly tell that you are new to being a Moderator.

tl:dr of entire thread:

The system we have isn't perfect, but it's the best possible one for what Minecraft allows. Minecraft (and the Empire) are both still in their newer stages and as better options come up we will explore them.

I'd like to point out that one thing I like to keep in line on projects I'm on is that people attack ideas and not each other. This topic currently seems to have the heat of a 360 vs PS3 forum post, lol. Everyone take a chill pill for a bit, and keep on the subject of the topic and not each other.

You had to make me reply didn't you First part of my reply was to you. The rest about a pvp system was meant for Goku

On the second part you would be wrong this isn't my first time being a moderator.

we'll I am glad you are a good sport I don't like when people don't want to talk anymore! discussion is what keeps the mundane away and is what keeps the ideas rolling.

and either way this topic seems to have a lot of interest in it in such a short amount of time. I'm glad to see us "up in arms" lol

Stop making me reply.....

It's not that I don't want to discuss it anymore, It's that I don't know what more I can add to it. I have expressed my personal views, and what is expected of me as a moderator.

(I know it is hard to detect emotion in text. So i just want to say none of what I said, was in anger. I personally enjoy a good discussion/debate. Sometime I might get into a bit much, and I can see how some of my replies might suggest I might be.)

it's cool slozon, I hope I didn't irritate you in anyway myself, and let it be known I was not attempting to attack you directly as a person( i know I know, it does seem that way and I do apologize ) but was more in attempt trying to point out the difference of say...jeremy's moderating of the empire as opposed to yours. Not that you were wrong in what you were saying, cuz you are not. Like you said, you could only be a Moderator, though you have your opinion, I would assume you would agree that the Moderators duties come before the individuals. Maintaining duality can be tough.

Which is why I can see the real tension of this subject, if someone address the issues simply as The Moderator, they can Only be Indirectly involved.

Well actually, that's another thing I've always done with my moderating teams, is let them have their own voice. I much prefer people to tell me ways we could be wrong and give us new ideas, regardless of them being a moderator or not. While we ask that they enforce the ideas we already have in place, they don't really have to agree with them on a personal level.

A lot of great ideas we had for GameKrib and even EMC were those from things that were suggested to us by others that Justin and I didn't always agree with ourselves, but turned out good regardless.

I originally joined the Empire for the exact statement I read in the guide:
There is NO PVP anywhere on any Empire Minecraft server.
If you wish to play in a PVP server, you will have to find another place to play...
There is no further discussion that can be held which will sway the opinion of the staff.
We are only working to better improve our reporting system to avoid future attacks on our members.
Some things will always exist, no matter what... Sorry, we have our system. It is flawed, but only because of the limitations of balance placed upon us by Minecraft itself...

As well, if you do not wish to be griefed, I hear that Single Player has an absolute 0% rate of griefing incidents.

k well i'm done posting too. I got my answer, although i really don't care for it, not much else I can say to make the point any clearer. I just want my crap back if i gotta stand there and take a beating (i will screenshot my inv best i can too) and can't fight back or do anything to prevent it from happening. You'll either do it or not, but i can say this, i'll be thinking long and hard about renewing next month not because there's no PvP, but because there's no recourse I have if I fight back. I don't want to pay for my month and then get banned the next because someone wants to screw me over. :\

I'm sorry you feel that way, but like we said, if we can find a better plan that won't cause more problems we will. I've played on quite a few PVP servers, and I promise you that you would lose your stuff more often on any other server than ours. If you know of another server that eliminates all of the issues stated above with PVP, please let me know and we can look into those options.