Price of Silk Touch and Fortune 3 Picks - Enchanters read!

Finding 1562Diamond nodes is also time consuming and based on luck.

If these Enchants are so godly and make so much money , why would you sell them in the first place? Why not keep them for yourselves?

Because selling them is obviously more profitable then using them. It's less time consuming and less risky.

"Hey you know what , i'm good guy , i'll sell you this money printing machine for 10k and at that price you are ripping me off. "

PS: Don't take me too seriously.

The fact of the matter is: Most of the empire is poor. The capitalism system puts money into a few hands while the rest of us sit at the bottom with nothing. And i'm sorry, but it is true. There are people out there jsut to make money, and there are the erst of us who want to play the game.

Nothing against you guys who are "rich" (It is in game currency afterall) but most of us dont get over 10k very often, and when we do we spend it at YOUR shops. Its great that you have a lot of money to spend, but we don't. I don't think any of us should be penalized by higher prices because we dont stock a shop every day like you do. The market decides the prices, and a price increase in enchanted items will likely lead to a severe decrease in purchases of them. I know I wouldn't pay anywhere close to those prices.

This is a good lesson in Economics. The price of the commodity "enchanted picks" is directly tied to the value of the commodity "XP." When we lost our XP at death, the value of XP was significantly higher than it is now. It's no real surprise that the price of enchanted picks has corrected.

It's possible that the price has overcorrected, but if that's the case it will self-correct.

Someone mentioned it earlier, but the only real commodity being used in any great quantity is time. Everyone values their time differently. I wouldn't grind to get to level 50, because my time is worth more to me than anything I could gain in returns, whereas some people will happily sit and do that several times and not think anything of it, and hence sell at the rate they themselves value their own labour.

Perhaps people are undervaluing their self, more than the tools and enchants.

Grrr I'm so, so tired of price complaints.

ROI is a bit subjective in this context, isn't it? Sounds sophisticated and technical but, considering we're talking about a video game here, and that the time spent is ostensibly voluntary and pleasurable, and that the only real investment we have is a fixed cost of $20 for MC, any "investment" referred to is kind of a soft number. We do not work on MC... this is leisure. When we get into discussing how we want to be payed for our time, it doesn't sound like we're enjoying what we're doing so much any more, does it?

In fact, by the same logic I might provide EMC that my time is worth about $55/hr, and that I'd like my daily allowance to reflect that. Since $5 buys 400 rupees a day (support rate) that makes my $5 worth about 12,000 rupees a month. In total, $5 = ~12,000 rupees before I pay again. That means $55 = ~132,000 rupees. By the same logic, in which I consider how much my time is worth for playing this game, I should get 132,000 rupees an hour. See what I'm sayin' here? Bit much, huh, crying about how much time I put into a game? It's a GAME.

But okay, if we're going to throw economics at this then it's not too hard to look at it from both sides.

Not everybody will value their time the same as the next person. So everybody that is perfectly happy selling their enchantments for 9k and winning priority in business is selling at precisely the right price, simply because both the buyer and seller agree upon it. I understand how some enchanters might be dismayed to see prices drop, but more people are making these than used to. So supply and demand applies and we see that effect.

But the most important economic lesson you should take from this regards VALUE. VALUE is a dynamic, fluid thing. But logically, value is simple. It is determined by an agreement between buyer and seller on the worth of an item. Purchase signifies this agreement. Beets are worthless to me because I hate them. Beer, on the other hand, I would likely pay much more for if it were sold at higher prices and unavailable at lower prices. The worth of the enchanted, video game items we discuss here is determined through a confluence of the same two factors:

• the highest amount each/any player would pay for them
• the lowest amount each/any seller is willing to charge

Just as it is at Target, Wal-Mart, or 7-Eleven.

So if people will pay you a lot for your pick, whatever you think it's worth, then good for you. Yay. That's a win for whoever buys from you and a win for you in terms of "profit" in funny money. If people will sell one for much less than yours, that's ALSO a win for them and the buyer.

Finally, I hate seeing this kind of stuff coming from a mod. Lazy? What is the problem? I buy all of my enchantments, Aikar. I like to buy them, and to spend my time building. I'm not into grinding, even when I have access to a grinder. I hate grinding. If you've got a problem with how much rupees you're not getting for enchants, then get a petition for price fixing or something. You're obviously in a position to influence, though I'm not sure you ought to be using that position in order to fix prices on the servers. I'm certain you shouldn't spend your time trashing people for buying and selling low.

Guys please,

Let us not argue about something like this. Aikar has stated his perspective of the situation and even though you might not agree doesn't mean you disrespect his opinion. I respect each and every one of your opinions. Each of you is taking this from a different angle. Aikar was taking a mathematical approach at it. Alot of you were taking a political approach at it. Some of you are thinking of it economically as it is. Some people like BloodDisciple think that grinding is tedious and is a bad idea. Some people like Aikar think that if you want a Silk touch or Fortune pickaxe you should go make a grinder yourself. You know what? At one point I thought grinding was a bad idea because I didn't understand the basics and my grinder didn't work very well. So I decided to buy my enchanted pickaxes. But now I have access to a working grinder and I think it is fun and exciting to put your pick in an enchanting table and see if you got lucky.

And remember,

THIS IS ONLY A GAME

I think it is great that we are having this discussion and are trying to agree on one thing. We are offering our own opinions to see what others think of it This is supposed to be a positive thing to be doing. Try to enjoy it. We are playing on Empire Minecraft for our own amusement. No need to start arguing

Sincerely,
Ninjaboy5656

I did not disrespect his opinion; certainly not to the degree us lazy ones were disrespected. "This is only a game" is at the heart of what I was saying. And the approach wasn't political, it was to make sense of the economic approach that was taken in the first place.

I hear where you're coming from, Ninja. And I appreciate it... and in retrospect it was a bit intense. I don't like intense words on here any more than the next guy, but I was one of the many caught in the lazy crosshairs here.

Edit: To be fair, what Aikar was attempting was to put a measure of UTILITY on these items. That is valid. Measures of utility are more... solid, and attempt to get around more fluid measurements of value dependent upon principles of individual preference, supply and demand, etc. But this is a game. The assignment of utility in the OP was restrictive and conditional upon use of items for diamonds alone, without consideration of the devaluation of diamonds that occurs proportionate to increased production of them... if everybody mines diamonds alone with fortune picks they decrease in value when supply and demand is considered.

It also took time into consideration for the production of enchants, whereas it ignores time spent on acquisition of other items. Diamonds aren't just there for the pickin'. If you take into account the subjective worth of somebody's time, then diamonds should probably be worth more than they are... but they're not. They're not expensive beyond one's ability to pay, and they're not generally expensive above a level where the seller can compete in the market. So how long would it take somebody with a Fortune 3 Unbreak 3 pick to get "full" return on an enchanted pickaxe? Longer than it takes somebody with a grinder to enchant a pick.

We've had the economy discussion on so many threads before. One concept consistantly reaffirms itself - allow the economy to work itself out, and all is well. We can, I think, trust the judgment of people to buy and sell at whatever prices they see fit without trying to influence or manipulate it here.

SO many diamonds have been injected into the economy lately due to the world resets diamonds have been dropped to around 40-45 rupees a pop. If we do the math again, (which I am too lazy to do ) we will get much lower prices on our enchanted pickaxes.

Do you want us people who buy enchantments to pay more than we could ever afford? Lol i understand they are worth more, but the main reason they are so low is because nobody can afford any higher!! If we charge 10k + for picks, NOBODY would buy them, even if it is a good investment, because most cant spend that much.

BTW i got one Fortune II with unbreaking I and Efficeny I for 2..5k

I somewhat agree with these price droppings but not for the picks. When I try to sell an item I go off of other stores first and estimating what people would buy it for. Problem is I always go a little under market price to attract customers. At the moment Ive had to go so low on villager eggs I am literally selling them for 1r apiece because no one else is buying them at a 10r price or so.. I think its absolutley rediculous because ingame people will lie to you saying " Oh i know where you can get that item cheaper this is a ripoff" then you change the item price that person buys ur whole stock and sells it for a higher price . The market is definatley full of people trying to make a quick buck but.. how low will they go until the marlet crashes?

If I am correct on my math here:
we get 100r a day unless your supporter.
Some people get on just for the cash then get off. If money is being added to the economy each day wouldnt you think prices of items would kinda drop a little. especially with supporters its added more cash to the system and is going to make things cheaper..
there is probably at LEAST 100,000 plus rupees added to the system everyday. If you dont think that is going to have an effect on the economy your crazy..
I know that money is supposed to help boost the econ but it also helps drop it

For your theory waffles, it would be more like 2,600,000 Rupees added each day if only 75% came online, the 25% who are supporters would add a few more million rupees a day. Sometimes people are arrogant and dont want to listen to you when you say (oh that i can get 100 rupees a stack cheaper at this other guys place) When most times that is true, you should probably check out other stores and see for yourself. My opinion on Villager eggs is that they go for around 35r. The other problem is, some servers have lower prices than others, and when new servers come out, some people have different prices. Then even others say " Well if im the only wood seller on the server i CAN sell double the going price and not have an even price between planks and logs" You know what i did then? I made a shop with wood at half his price, and it was still kinda high. Basically, we need even prices for each server.

Your logic is flawed... people will pay what they feel the items are worth to them, and not what you calculate the value of the item to be based on how you would use it. I personally buy fortune 3 unbreaking 3 picks to use on coal. Not the best ROI, but fun for me to see all the coal fly out of the blocks!

I don't think that anyone bases their prices on what everyone else is selling for really... I think they base their prices on what they can get for the items. If there was a shortage of Fortune 3 picks, the price would be higher. But there is no such shortage... heck, I can go out and pick up a fortune pick in a shop these days... that was not always the case.

When I started playing on this server, very few people had ever bought or sold a silk touch pick... most who managed to get one kept it for themselves. When d1223m started grinding and auctioning off high-end items, I was one of the main customers for those items. As a matter of fact, I would be willing to bet that I have spent more on auctions than 99% of EMC players. At that point, these items were pretty expensive... 28K for a silk touch with unbreak3 and maybe some eff on top of that... I think I spent like 30K for some armour that let me breath under water without taking damage once.

That was then... this is now. Now, everyone and their mothers are grinding xp and enchanting stuff to sell. The supply so greatly exceeds the demand at this point, that it doesn't matter what the items should be used for to maximize their value... they are used and replaced by people who have very average incomes because they are affordable. If someone said they were only going to sell their enchanted stuff for 30K+ that person would soon find themselves with a large stock of enchanted stuff, and no customers to sell it to.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but this is the way things are right now in the enchanted stuff market. If you want more for your enchanted gear, by all means try to get it. I don't think you're going to find people willing to part with that many of their hard-earned rupees just because you AFK'd at your xp grinder for a few hours and clicked on that enchantment table 200 times until you got the 49 or 50 to pop up... I know I won't.

Amen Nurgles.

I tried to convince all of smp6 about this but they all said no 50k is too high for silk touch, 15k tops.
so what can I do with my 2 silk touch picks if no one will but at the proper price?

It's about supply and demand as well as ROI.

Kilmannan made a very good point about time, and if plenty of people are enjoying grinding xp and making enchanted items to sell, then the price will inevitably come down. If most people aren't prepared to pay more than 10k for a Fortune III (a free player would have to log in every day for nearly 4 months to earn that), then the price will fall further, as the target market is small.

Also, Aikar forgot to factor in death. If you're only using your pick on diamonds, there's a good chance you'll die before you harvest all 1500 diamonds, which reduces the ROI.

Economies are weird things, and something is only worth what people are prepared to pay for it.

I've dug 1567 diamonds recently, I can assure you there not worth 627k.

I've been thinking about this, and by the logic in the first post, we should raise the price of regular diamond picks. One can get an unenchanted diamond pick for about 150r. That pick can mine 1500+ diamonds (assuming you only use it on diamonds) which will make you 75000!

Changing the price of my diamond pickaxes now.. jk!

If we had a diamond pickaxe price like that, the materials used for it, 3 diamonds and two sticks would have higher costs aswell. Diamonds would sell for a higher price, and at the end, everyone loses.
It is probably just not possible. Too bad though.

Yeah, exactly. That's what I was trying to point out. I know it takes a lot of time to grind xp and get decent enchantments, but it also takes a long time to go out and mine 1500 diamonds.

The fact of the matter here is that they are worth whatever the consumer will pay for it.