I think that as long as cmrichter has the money to back up his bids, and willingly pays for items he wins, and is not working in collusion with any sellers, he is on solid ground. I have seen many of his bids, and I believe that he meets all three guidelines I have provided. Moaning and weeping about how you could have paid less is being a poor sport. If you didn't want the auction lot, you wouldn't have bought it.
if you're willing to pay off your bid for the item, in the eventuality that your bid is the top bid, then it is a valid bid... regardless of your intentions in participation in the auction. Your bid signifies your agreement to pay that price for the item... and acceptance of a proposal set forward by the auctioneer. Kind of an 'in game' contract. Further, if your bidding annoys anybody else because of subsequent inflation of prices, then they may simply choose to refrain from further participation in the auction... and shut up about it. If they DO bid higher (in spite of their annoyance at your participation in the auction), that clearly represents an AGREEMENT with your bid that the value of the item is INDEED that high, and their continued desire to purchase the item at a higher price. Read: you and they both agree concurrently that the item is worth as much or more than current price. Your bid commits you to that statement, and you pay when you're the last at the table. I don't want to talk in circles here... The auctions are really simple. Just a process of negotiation between a seller and several potential buyers. The final price signifies a compromise between seller and buyer(s) between lowest acceptable buying price, and the highest amount the market is willing to compensate the seller for the item. Each consecutive bid is a communication between participants which represents a general consensus on the worth of the items. You get to play that game just as everybody else does. Why, btw? Have you caught some flack about your bidding? As long as you aren't backing out or begging others to outbid you at the last moment, I can't see any problem.
I have never bid on any of these auctions...I don't generally do auctions. I am just responding to the question posed in the first post with my opinion, no one can say I am wrong, and I cannot say anyone else is wrong, but this isn't a mater of the mechanics of an auction (we all know how an auction works), but a matter of the actions taken and reasons for it in previous auctions. I have no issue with the fancy legal mumbo jumbo you guy are writing. Sure it's legal, sure he's not breaking the rules...but is it wrong? (Not "against the rules", but just wrong...you can add the word morally wrong if it helps you understand the question better). He has a notion that maybe he is doing the wrong thing otherwise he would not have asked. I have issue with what he said he is doing. He specifically stated that he bids to raise the prices, in an effort to help the seller. But in contrast he is hurting way more buyers. If he isn't actively trying his best to drive up the prices, think about how many people would have been able to afford a nice deal before if jumps several thousand in one bid. I don't go on eBay to help the seller, I go to find a deal....otherwise I'd pay retail for an item. Sure if he wins he'll pay, but that is beside the point... We are not debating the mechanics of an auction, as I said, we all know how that works. If I see a little boy in the store walking to buy the last candy bar in the rack, and then I run past, grab it before he does and buy it, I did absolutely nothing wrong. I didn't stop the boy, I didn't steal the candy, I paid for it legally. But was what I did wrong? Maybe not legally, but it would most certainly be frowned upon. And that is the issue. Not whether bidding high is against the rules, but if driving up prices for the sake of driving up prices is not a nice way to play...I say it's not.
Your metaphor is about buying something first. We are talking about making bids in an auction, not the same thing. You have made mcrichter into someone who would steal candy from a baby, when that is not at all what is happening. In logic, we call this an ad hominem, and attack on the character of the person you are arguing against. What is really going on here, is that we have some guys and gals here who have a nice fat pocketbook and are making bids on what are purely and essentially luxury items. None of these items are needed to play the game, and none of these items are inaccessible to players if they are willing to do the work to get them. [/quote]
[/quote] You obviously did not understand the example. I even specifically stated I did not steal anything from a baby, what I did was very legal. I may not have bid on the candy, but I did not even have to use a "commerce" metaphor. I was simply stating a situation in which my actions were "within the rules" but probably morally wrong. I could have easily said faking being hit by a pitch in baseball, or telling the homely girl at work I already have a girlfriend when I don't...doesn't have to be commerce related. Neither of those examples are against the rules, but may be wrong... But if you need an auction example. Imagine all the buildings around Trump Towers going up for sale. Donald Trump doesn't really care or want the buildings. He just wants to drive up the prices those buildings went for, so he keeps outbidding others. Sure every now and them he is stuck paying for something he does't want, but he buys it anyway, because he follows the rules, only to be stuck with something he will then resell or let sit. I'd say that is wrong, especially when the other bidders had big plans for those buildings. So you can keep your logic and ad hominems... I am not writing a a paper for school, or trying to force my opinion with fancy words, I am replying to a question asked to the community. I have nothing against mcrichter, I don't know him, I am answering his question "What do you think...". If he ever asked for my help in anything, I would gladly help. So what is really going on here is that we have people who have a nice fat pocketbook and just want to drive prices with no regard to end status of auction, or even desire to win auction (both explicitly stated). Now, if mcrichter had said, "Is it against rules"...I'd agree with you and say no. Or if he said is is wrong to want to buy everything because I have the need to own everything because I have so much money....again I'd agree and no, not wrong at all...feel free. But neither one of those are the case, and that is not what was asked. Also we are not talking about preventing anyone else from being able to play the game, yeah its all virtual, luxury, not necessary ...whatever. All that is not important. Saying playerxyz can't buy superaxe12 is so beyond the point. I hate that being the final argument for any normal discussion. None of this stuff matters 20 years now, we get that. I am simply talking, again, to the question asked to us. All of these other responses with fancy words, and copy/pasted rules are similiar to the following scenario: John: Aubringer, what do you think about my ouftfit? Aubringer: That shirt does not match those pants. Rob: Aubringer you are wrong! That shirt is being worn on the chest and the pants are on the legs, so his outfit must match! Rob is not even offering an opinion, he is just sating that Aubringer must be wrong, because the garments are in the right slot.
I think its wrong in all honesty and you can get kicked from sites like ebay for doing it, so why do it here..
As long as there is no collusion between bidder and seller, there is nothing wrong with this on any auction site. @aubringer: I have to assume that English is not your first language.
If you bid on an auction with the intent of NOT paying for it if you win, even if it's okay with the seller, I don't consider this okay. Doing this on ebay and other sites and they ARE against this. I forgot the term for it, but there is a term and they will kick you off ebay for doing it.
This is referred to as "shill bidding" and is done by bidders in collusion with sellers to help them max their auction prices. I agree that such behavior is patently unfair, and should not be allowed on EMC auctions.
The point of bidding in an auction is to get a good item for as little as possible. As a buyer you should go into them with a limit of what you are willing to pay. Then you should never cross that limit. If you bid smart then no one has the ability to impact you. If you are participating in an auction - and you end up paying more for an item then you think it is worth - you have no one to blame but yourself. If you are throwing out bids just to compete with someone else - you are going to make bad decisions. Might want to work on better impulse control. The point of hosting an auction is to sell a good item for as much as people are willing to pay for it. The same thing goes for someone hosting an auction. If you place an item up for sale with a low starting bid - and do not get an amount you think is appropriate - you will learn an important lesson. Many people enjoy bidding in auctions. Not for the items - but for the fun of the "gamble". This is why there are a lot of really popular "penny auction sites" out there. If he is willing to back up his bids with his rupees (if he wins) I see nothing dishonest with this.
