I interpreted that as that they just didn't look in the auction forums - not sure which of our interpretations is right, though. Seeing auctions in the Recently Active Threads list and the What's New page causes a lot more "oh well I guess I actually did want this", while for finding auctions in the auction sub-forum, you actively have to go there, in an auction buying mood. That happens a lot less than the "impulse bids". Not being allowed to bump makes the "impulse bids" happen a lot often, because auctions won't be in the What's New list as often.
I completely understand where you are coming from. However, the data shows (with exception of the auction that started this conversation), that even without bumping, the auctions are being seen and bid on actively. As I'm sure you have, make sure that your sentiments are known in the survey and they will be taken into account. After looking at just the bump data, there is already proof that everyone thinks differently, and almost equivalently so with exception of a slight curve. That tells me that this issue is thought of in many different ways by many different players, which also means that unfortunately we won't be able to make everyone the happiest that they could be. That's just how it works sometimes.
Ultimately, it is what it is. You are going to have to get used to going to the auction section and looking around and not depending on looking only at the recent threads section. You might find if you do that you will find stuff that you wouldn't have seen even when bumping was allowed. Sometimes you gotta go with the flow bud.
'Cherry picked' from the search of 'enchanted books': This one - Random books, not all max enchant: 3k This one - 1 DCs each of Fortune III & Protection III: 50r (with bumps) This one - 1 DC of Infinity: 6k There is many more. Point is these are not the type of items that will often have set prices. The more often used books might. There was 1 for mending which went for 30k. That's something used on almost everything. You can use your personal experience as 'proof' this system doesn't work but it won't hold up. You could auction the exact same thing in a month and get a completely different amount. Auctions are always a risk. Higher demand items will usually get their value or more but other stuff not so much. Bumps or no bumps.
So maybe this should be a lesson for you and the other 2? If you looking for good deals maybe you should keep an eye on the auction thread? It really doesn't take that much effort to check the thread every day or 2. This entire thread is really silly. People who are looking for good deals know about the auction thread. You go there, scroll through the auctions, and see if there is anything interesting. You don't just look at the top auction or 2, you scroll through all of them. You can even click the "mark as read" thing at the top right and then only the new ones are highlighted. It's really not that complicated. All bumping does is make the seller feel good. It's the whole "look at me I'm on top" feeling that they like. The smart people are looking not just at the top post but at all the new posts. I think the real issues here are 1. Some people just can't handle change and 2. Some people just really like to argue. If they'd just use their heads a little, they'd realize that it's not a big deal.
I was trying to deflate a already heated debate and it worked for a bit. I am going to directly say my words... @Bromine_XD We have seen all your post and we know that you are upset. Other people are upset too and keep in mind that the rule MAY change depending on how this survey. Auctions are in no shape or form a forsure way of getting market price of items. Take note of Car Auctions. Some cars are hot, some are not depending on the market for that particular car. Same applies to items here in game. If you want to make money at a fixed rate, some already suggested to sell the items in a shop. It's a great idea. If you don't want to sell items in the auction anymore, well that is your choice and that will be respected among the community. I hope I could clarify of what I read It wasn't about the change, it was how it was handled and implemented. Some don't like change and I agree. But, this was "Out-of-the-blue" why the community was in shock. I already put my opinion about this already. People argue to sway opinions, it's common anywhere. I don't see people "liking" aurguing but it happens.
Can I be the nerd statistics guy? Thanks (I didn't read the full thread jet, so I'm sorry if this has alredey been said) Yes, on average, there is little to no differnce in the pricing, but that's meirly on average. The problem I have with this system is that it allows for peaks downwards. What I now could do (and would do with thease rules), is bid in a time almost no one is watching, early in the morning my time, 3am EMC time. What, in my experience, then tends to happen, is that it is being pushed down in the morning EMC time, when some people work through their alerts, and post a few things, wihich results in it being more likely to go unnoticed. Something like this, of course, also is quite likely to happen by accedent. I have done some back-of-the-anveloppe calculations on this before, and this even seemed to be benneficial (p=0.2) before the auction rule change. As far as I remember: it seemed like the main time it worked was when the auctionneer forgot to bump. Of course, this effect could also be taken down by the rule change: as no one bumps in auctions and so there are less threads to push this one down, but I think that is very unlikely. So: even though the averege may not have changed, there very much could be a difference. I do not have any absolute data to support this: I could go on and make a graph of low peaks to see if they're indeed more likely, but I think we don't have enough data to proof something like this is happening. With some back-of-the-anveloppe calculations and a quick look through the auctions, I this that we can only possebly get a 30% chance (or p=0.7, which is something I have never said seriously before...) this is happening, and not some random occurance. I could do a full analisys, but one: It's 10PM for me (which also is the reason for the many typo's and such) 2: It's going to be 2 hours of work for me (mainly to look through the threads). so, I'm not doing it now. (I might have time tomorrow) ----------------------------------- There also is an 'ethical' problem I have with thease rules: I'm sorry if this is being said before, but, bumping also was a great way to make the people who care about their auction get a higher chance of a higher price then the ones who don't, or anyway get to feel like they did evrything they could. Which, I think, is nice. If you're auctionning of something you have worked very hard on to get (mainly looking at the "younger" emc'ers here) you can put a lot of care into bumping, where someone like me would just do that once a day and then still sometimes forget. I do think this difference is nice to have around. Now, it's just post a thread, and hope for the best, it used to be a proces of caring.
Here's a screenshot of the most recent threads from just now: Since this list was increased to 20 latest threads, this is often what I've seen. The oldest post on anything was 4:49 am. That was just under 12 hours ago. That's plenty of time to cover most timezones. Unless 10+ joke auctions of the same thing appear again to bump everything out, this is what I've noticed. Bumping threads wouldn't fix this either. Each bumped thread just knocks another one off the list (unless the bumped thread was already on the list). Not being allowed to bump a thread is not what is hurting auctions, it's people are not willing to click a few more links to see them all in 1 view, then they go unseen. There was even a link added up top to click on. Ethical? Not sure what ethics have to do with bumping an auction. 'I want more money for my stuff' is why you bump it.
This is simply incorrect. I have never once seen an advertisement for Jewel Osco or Costco, and I get all my produce from one of those two locations; and Costco is legendary across the U.S. from what I've seen. I very rarely watch TV, so I only ever see Target or Walmart ads at Christmas, and that doesn't stop me from thinking of them when I need to buy several classes of goods. Same applies for restaurants. I can't think of a single local breakfast place that I've ever seen an ad for, and yet I've tried over a dozen at this point. I wanted breakfast, so I looked at the options. Consumers are not lazy if there are good things to be found. Check the auction forums. All of these numbers are very nice, but they are completely irrelevant if people actually check the auction forums, which is the whole reason for this push. As demonstrated, bumps ultimately play little to no effect. When I was a new player, my first auction was a DC of carrots, wheat, and potatoes. I slaved away for them and was proud to earn a bunch of money for them. One problem: no matter how I much I bumped, nobody bid. In the end, regardless of how hard you worked for something, what matters more is whether people actually want to buy it. If you truly care about an item, work to sell it ingame or on the forums through means other than auctions, where you have genuine control over the price. An auction was never meant to be a process of caring; it was meant to be a quick and easy way to maximize the price for goods. EDIT: Ignore white words in this post... my computer is being weird.
Notice: Survey will continue until Friday (meaning through 11:59 pm EMC time on Thursday), after which a post with the results and staff adjustments to rules, etc will be posted.
(1) Yay. (2) I'd like to both agree and disagree with this. Yes, many auctions are being seen and bid on actively, but there are also many auctions that aren't being seen and bid on actively. And before the disallowment [that's apparently not a word ] disallowing bumping auctions, many auctions were being seen and bid on actively, and there were also many auctions that were not seen and bid on actively. Others said that (they think) the entire auction system is broken. I definitely don't think that. It's very different than that, I believe, and broken isn't the right word for it at all. (speaking about percentages of the total) I think that, if the rules were kept as they are right now, the amount of auctions that went for "market value or above" would still be more than acceptable. I do however also think, that the amount (%) of auctions that went for "market value or above" was higher before bumping auctions was disallowed. Not massively higher, nah, but not only slightly either - at least, that's what I think. Only "problem" is that proving this with proof is practically impossible. Most stuff only gets auctioned very occasionally, and in any case a big part of whether an auction goes well or not well depends on pure luck. Do note though that I'm not complaining, merely trying to offer a different viewpoint. I think I understand "yours", and I can definitely see where you're coming from. Yup, I have filled in the form as well (long before I replied to this thread, actually). Obviously, I am biased, as it's my suggestion, but I do personally like what I suggested in the first question of the form - as I think it would actually make both of us happy. I can see where you're coming from, and what you're saying is right (except that it's incorrect ), but it's missing the point I was trying to make. The only way you know then that those shops exist, is because you've either found them by accident, someone told you about them, or you've looked up "Costco [near me]". However, say, tomorrow, a new Costco would be opened, two blocks away from you, and no one told you about it, and it's in that part of town you never come in for some reason, how would you know it exists? You know that there's an other Costco, so why bother search for another one when you know that one is the most convenient? Indeed, were auctions on EMC hold by a sort of massive retailer that has a reputation for their great auctions, this would be different, but that's (un)fortunately too fictional. Smaller, not well-known shops, however, how would you know of these (excluding others telling you about them)? The only way really is to look keywords up (~= looking at the auction forum), or stumbling upon them by sort of accident (~= What's New page). That first option is always possible, and that second one too, but not being allowed to bump auctions makes the "shops move to alleys lesser visited, further away" - less people will see them that way. Not none, no, but I do definitely think less. And I interpret the same from this - most restaurants you'll either know their name of already (like McDonald's), or you'll stumble on them as you go to a place likely to find restaurants (~= the What's New page - which includes both restaurants and other shops).
1) This thread is pinned to the front page, so it really doesn't need a bump. 2) I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to bump a thread that you don't own.
Thank you Hashy for making a very good point that I was trying to figure out how to say as I was reading/catching up on where this has gone. I must say that I was rather offended about being called lazy. Sorry Tom, but yea, I may not buy much from auctions etc but I do know others that do and ya know what.. they, like I, go to the forums and look for what we might be wanting. I have no problem going out to look for what I want and honestly.. just like irl .. usually ignore adverts for anything. I don't usually watch anything if I have to deal with sitting thru an ad. If I can't ff over it then I'm out but i have no problem going out and looking for what I want. *inhales .. thanks for listening. =]
Before you jump in with both feet and start throwing rocks you may want to actually read the thread to see what's gone on before hand to what's going on now. In other words.. try and be informed before spouting off about something you don't have all the facts on because if you had read and checked the facts you would know that it's not Krysyy who changes things up just cause she wants to. The change was a consensus the senior staff have been contemplating together and then decided on a course of action which it is part of Krysyy's job as Community Manager to enact. I hope I made that a little more clear for you.
Making a thread more visible ("Recently active") and bringing it to the top of the "Auctions" section surely helps getting more attention of potential bidders, it surely helps the auction. IIUC, the intention behind bumping rules is in the first place because of the "Recently active threads" list, and, IIUC, we all want both auction threads and non-auction threads to be visible on the side bar. So, how about adding an own section "Recently active auctions" on the sidebar and allow bumping again?
I don't really know what to reply to this, except that I said this: ... and that with that I obviously don't mean that all consumers are always lazy. I could make a great comparison here, but as most of this forum is American, I'll refrain from doing that. And I don't think that you got my point either. But whatever.
This by far has to be the simplest solution to the entire bumping issue. Just add a Recent Auctions section below the Recent Threads section, and then honestly bumping wouldn't be needed as often, so a 12-hour limit could then be implemented.
