As long as there are some sort of restrictions in place to avoid the inherent issues with something like a wild accessible vault, then it wouldn't be so bad.
hmm i think it sounds like a good idea, but i much rather have it put aside until the wild protections are set up, the only thing i really want at this point.
- Having vault access in the wild would significantly reduce the need to travel and transport stuff, much more than the ender chest did. Travel and transport is a significant aspect of the game. People build thousands of blocks long railway tracks to get out and to transport stuff back. - While it is ok to give supporters some additional services and "perks" as a present (NB: supporter support, they do not buy rupees and perks!) it is unfair and plain awkward to have playmates in the game with (significantly) different rules. - Why would one need to buy 100 pages of vault to get that feature? Why not just (if, if, if) /vault expand wild for 1M rupees. What is the point of binding that to the count of vault pages? (I see none.) - Typical exploit: go far out on 2-3 servers, mine there, put stuff into the vault and abracadabra, it is there on your res in your home town, and can be distributed to other servers within minutes. Let's do some math. I'll simplify for now - if someone wants to help we can test few things and make more accurate calculations. Assumptions: experienced player, 100 trips per mining site: Investment: Build railway system to get 12k blocks out: 25,000r Travel out and transport back: 100 x 600 = 60,000r ========================= Sum: 85,000r With wild vault (100 trips): Investment: wild vault: 1,000,000r Travel out once and back once: 10,000r ========================== Sum: 1,010,000r Travel for each following 100-sessions-operation: 10,000r Break-even point: n * 85k = 1000k + n * 10k, n = 1000k / (85k - 10k) = 13.3 After completing of about 1400 mining sessions at 14 different mining sites, the travel / transport cost would be about the same. EDIT: If you use dieing for travel: n = 1000k / (55k - 5k) = 20 So this puts break-even point to about 20 x 100 = 2000 mining sessions at 20 different sites. Conclusion: since diamond supporters already get 1,300 free rupees per day, they already have more than enough privileges over their playmates in-game. Supporters automatically get free stuff when non-supporters need their rupees. Effectively, the wild vault would cost $20 + 1Mr. Perhaps few might switch to diamond supporter for a month to buy it, this would bring perhaps like $1,000. I think it's not worth the cost. If the wild vault is to be accepted, I vote that it should be available for purchase to every member. I'd expect - based on few additional considerations about players mind set - that this would bring even more revenue for Kalland Labs.
I see the point of it Diamond getting 100 while Gold only gets 8 has been more or less clarified but just to make it all easy, southpark pointed it out perfectly: it's not about having more or less pages but about how challenging is to get to the 100th one. I'd say 8 pages are more than enough for the vault, probably more than necessary. 100 pages are so ridiculously unnecessary that it's only worth purchasing them to get the wild page.
To answer some questions: Why 100 for Diamond? I originally had diamond set to unlimited. Having unlimited pages is meant to be a perk. But there is technical limitations that you can' truely have unlimited (Thanks to Max for actually testing what would happen if she bought 257 vault pages....), so we simply threw in a 100 number to be sane Diamond members pay a lot of money, but their perks are not that balanced to it, so we try to find ways to boost the "Worth-it" aspect of Diamond. The 100 wild idea was player suggested... and it struck some light bulbs with us so were asking! You said you would never add X, now you are Ask yourself this, do you really want us to close off ideas 100% and never think about them again? Asking us to cut off thinking on ways to improve the server.... Sorry that will never happen. If we make a statement like "This will never happen", it's because we can not think of any way said idea would be good or fit in. Flying... We found a way by making it diamond only and town only -- There was no compromise to survival aspects of our server (Please, I've made my point on this on its thread -- don't debate that again here.. If you really want to argue that flying has more survival impacting aspect than Peaceful Mode and Buying items you didn't collect yourself, make a new thread), so we decided to implement it. Before, we never looked at flying as any way acceptable... But the idea randomly came to us and we put some thought into it and saw it as fitting. Wild vault access: Something we also didn't think would ever fit... but a player suggested it, and we now see potential ways to make it work... It is you, the players, who brought this idea to us, and we are trying to work with it to make it fit. Again, we are not going to cut off creative thinking. If the community truely does not think this is a good idea, the poll will say so, and we will not do it. The survival aspect hit of this There are many things coming to EMC that will change the balance of finding resources in the wild... Periodic Reset Areas actually.... resetting. This will bring fresh resources immediately on spawn. Something that has been intended to happen for over a year now. This is not a new idea to ruin the economy, but it will dramatically reduce need to travel. Wild Outpost Teleport Wild outposts in the wild update will have a teleport ability, giving players who are members access to fresher lands. Potentially more outposts in the wild Something that's been requested alot, is to add more outpost.... More fresh land, more resetting lands. Wastelands... This hasn't been publicly announced yet, but we are planning to bring back the wastelandns to solve the 1.5 reset issue. This means a 2nd wild, 2nd set of outposts (so potentially not going to bother with more outpost, but we will do what makes sense). In Summary: Resources will be obtainable through many means with less means of "distance" required to get them, but you still have to survive while out there and to get them back, so there will be some travel....but not required to be as much. The idea is not ironed out We haven't even thought of exact implementation details. What if we make it 5k per open in the wild? After 1 million rupees, and then 5k per open, it's very hard to say that these players would have a huge advantage, but to a rich player wanting to ship mass building supplies TO the wild to build, it can be a useful feature. Consider those things
i'm looking forward to the wild ideas about resetting the posts, and around it... smp1, has a HORRIBLE wild area, well, i think they all do. i remember someone saying that they were resetting the area by hand... well, they all look like eye sores. when i posted my thread about that server who's wild was stripped bear and didn't look like it had been cared to be fixed, someone clearly pointed out that our wild is just as bad. =\ i'd think this is an issue that should be worked on.
*cough* *cough* You mean don't haven't don't weren't or don't haven't did weren't ? Oh, that's not that difficult. Reward supporters around the game while keeping the game fair for everyone. Thank them, give them colors, give them special services around the game. Why would supporters want that? - To enjoy fair play. - To avoid separation of the community into classes, avoid segregation. - To have good economy. - So that achieving something in-game really has value and meaning. - To separate the virtual world from RL financial situations, to make it as unburdened as possible. - I'm sure there's more... With perk system of advantages in-game, you attract and favor people who would pay real money for advantage over their playmates in the game. Is that the kind of people we - as community - would like as playmates on EMC? I'm not saying that this is the motive of all supporters (it surely isn't mine), but when you read this thread, you get quite a good idea that probably the majority thinks so. I think Minecraft and EMC are so good, that this is not really needed.
So I had to spend part of my night last night and will spend part of my day AGAIN resolving a problem with someone who griefed/stole from me in the Wild. Why are all these hurdles being put in front of Wild protection? Do I really need a Dragon egg? Or a 100 page vault, Outpost travel, automated PRA's, Mob Arenas, Entcount, or Utopia Flying to have Wild protection? Can't we get Wild protection going then add the other niceties on later? I assume it's part of the Town system and could be implimented relatively quickly compared to the Dragon Tombs which seem like they would have to be completely new code. There might be complaints from some as we go about things being changed, but honestly I wouldn't grumble too much if I have to backtrack and get an egg after the fact to make it work. It would be saving the Staff and me time because I would no longer have to be reporting every time someone decides something is theirs just because it's not in a Locked chest. I want to build openly in the Wild. I already am and will continue to do so regardless of the availability of Wild protection - but I also want to do it without worries.
There are things that HAVE to be done in order for the wild update to work. We know it's taking a while, but we're getting there as fast as we can. It has to be done right or not at all, especially with something as important as what it is.
i think its a bit ridiculous..having to get 100 pages before you get 1 wild page. a million rupees is a bit steep for 1 page isnt it? you can just do the mine then die thing with enderchests. Im gonna soon unsupport this server....everythings for diamond members....gold members should at least get same treatment and maybe even iron when it comes to this wild page. I say supporting members can pay even say 100k or 150k for the 1 wild page...after theyve maxed out their pages even. like for me id spend 80k on pages...then the 100k on the wild page. For the 100 pages then wild page...i vote no
This is not a good idea, I think, cause this would not be fair. Whenever someone has the ability, he or she can from then on just mine diamonds and teleport them to town immediately. So the prices are lowering really fast, and that's not good for the people who don't have the ability to use the wild vault. So then the economy is really ruined. (sorry for my bad english)
Guys, please read the entire first post and thread before posting your thoughts so you can do so effectively. We said quite a few times so far that we haven't announced what stipulations would be on the wild page to make sure dying and transporting isn't abused.
yea like i said in other thread. its a bit ridiculous. 100 pages and we get 8? if that turns out that way im unsupporting. its pointless. its saying "If you cant give us $20 a month we want no money" your giving everything to diamond. some non supporters have more rupees then gold member so its not 100% because of diamond supporters getting more rupees a day. 10 for us 25 for them sounds fair. And when you max out your 10 or 25 pages then you have the option to buy the wild vault page for 100k or something. I know that gold members would only have to spend 200k as to diamond having to spend 350k but maybe raise gold page price or something to balance it out equally.
If that's the case, then why Wild protection at all? It either is or isn't meant to be done. I'm going to keep building out there and I'm not going to cower underground. I'm sure the Staff wastes plenty of time dealing with incidents that Wild protection would stop. I'd like to add that I think the Vault's great and I look forward to the Dragon Tombs. I just don't understand why the egg or any of these other things are being made a prerequisite which, in effect, delays protection.
Before today, you had one page and no idea that any more pages were EVER coming. Are you saying that you were going to unsupport before you had this knowledge? I'm not sure how getting more than you had before while the amount for supporting stayed the same is such a horrible thing? Of course supporting is up to each individual person and whether they're having a good time here or not. If you're not, I'm sorry and wish you the best of luck in finding somewhere you are happy.
oh i love the site. thats why im giving you my money. I know you dont NEED it with all the other supporters but you should treat everyone equally and fair. I had no intention to unsupport. but id like to be treated fairly. Diamond will get a little but more then gold but not something as big as a wild vault.
OK, I was pretty much disinterested until Aikar's last post regarding the wild outpost possible teleporting idea. The ONLY time I've ever used the vault was when it was opened up temporarily for free due to the last major wild reset. I haven't used it since, as I now spend all my time in the wild on smp7, and my town residence on smp3 hasn't really been touched. I guess what I'm saying is that the only real use that a wild resident has for the vault is as a keepsafe for all the materials they don't want to disappear upon a wild reset. We have no interest in town or the rupee economy--the only things I spend rupees on is locking wild chests and eggifying animals for transport to a farm--but on the upside, an easier way to move from wild to town (the aforementioned teleport) may bring us wild folk into town more and boost the economy. Even a simple /home-/sethome command for the wild would bring many of the wild residents back into the town economy and have the added upside of eliminating the need for 'griefer tunnels' to our outposts, adding a little more protection to our constructions. No more 1-wide dirt bridges or 1x2 tunnel highways to our best creations! ;D All in all, great ideas. This server group has some of the best admins I've ever seen, and you guys are doing a GREAT job. ;D
Being a supporter is a choice. Our perks are fair, they do not separate players from supporters and they don't make anyone miss out on some of the main, proper game aspects (hence, a way to stop transport-die-repeat is being worked on). Being a supporter just makes things easier. EDIT: Also, supporters-non supporters are both treated both fairly and equally. No one's forcing you to buy these pages or upgrade to diamond.
