Empire Minecraft is still 1.8 - 1.9.4 is near!

Aikar I'm sorry to hear about the family matter! Hope all is well.

Hope everything is alright. I can wait for 1.9.

I know I'm dragging up old stuff, but yah. I wanted to comment on this earlier but couldn't and since you seem like someone who genuinely wants to know someone elses opinion (and because I also like venting a little ) I figured I'd share.

I've been offline for a while and during that time also played with 1.9 a little (I actually like playing singleplayer from time to time). Basically I don't bother with it anymore because it feels like a very sloppy update to me and I also don't enjoy it. I honestly prefer playing on 1.8 and not 1.9.

The problem is that they tried to make something more "real" but in doing so they only exposed a lot of other parts which now don't seem logical anymore.

First of all the update feels very sloppy to me. In 1.8 I right click on my food and nothing happens if I'm not hungry. In 1.9 my hand(s) start to jitter. That annoys the heck out of me. Either I'm going to eat or I'm not; I don't need these spastic movements (which most likely also gobble up computer resources).

So the update is all about combat (its even named as such). But in my opinion it didn't enhance combat at all, only changed it. And not in a good way either; it's inconsistent as heck. If I try to kill a skeleton in 1.8 it'll take me approx. 3 hits. If I try the same in 1.9 (carefully taking the timer into consideration) then... Ayups: 3 slow hits. I tried this many times. But wasn't the new hit supposed to take longer because you were actually striking / lashing out, and as such dealing more damage? The way I see it the only thing that got changed was the delay to strike. They took the speed out of combat but didn't give anything in return. Those slashes don't seem to do more damage. So within my reasoning this means that instead of more we're now doing less damage.

And in return the mobs do more damage.

I tested this with a skeleton; if you get shot you lose more hearts on 1.9 than on 1.8. So monsters do more damage and you can do less damage (measured over time) in return. I don't see the fun there; I only see a working game mechanic getting changed because of the change.

And I tend to get annoyed over all the sudden inconsistencies. We can now use an off hand, which in itself is cool. I personally like the combination of mining and placing torches.

But why oh why can I do something silly like firing a 2 handed weapon (bow) using one hand, but I can't do something as simple as swing an axe? That makes no sense to me.

Sure; I know why it doesn't work this way; the off-hand can only be used while right clicking. Torches and such are placed while right clicking. I get the mechanic, but as a result the logic is now gone. I can shoot a bow but not swing an axe, it makes no sense and simply seems stupid to me (at least a major oversight or a sloppy mechanic). My gripe is that they explicitly named this the combat update. SO this isn't a side-mechanic we're talking about, we're actually talking about the very heart of the new release.

Another thing I don't enjoy, and mostly for the same reason (lack of logic) is brewing. Why do we need extra blaze powder? I see the attempted logic: the blaze powder somehow "filters" the water. Sure. So why do we still need a blaze rod to craft a brewing stand instead of a simply stick? What's the added value of the blaze rod? IMO there is none: in 1.8 you could argue that it "powered" the brewing process but in 1.9 that part is done by the blaze powder.

So once again, in my opinion of course, they only changed stuff for the heck of it (making things harder on us) without giving anything back.

I don't call that balanced gameplay, I call that change because of the change. No added value at all, at least not for me. And once again: its no fun for me. I dislike brewing in 1.9 because of it. And I dislike it even more because I know Mojang can do better. I was also skeptical about the new enchanting process in 1.8 but at least we got something in return: it required lapis but in return we got to spend less XP. That is balanced gameplay for you.

And when I look at 1.9 as a whole then I also wonder: did we really get so much new stuff?

Most new stuff has been added for those who finished the game. All fun and well, but in most of my single player games I haven't even located an End portal yet. I'm too busy mining, building, exploring. And, obviously, also sometimes searching the Nether for a fortress so that I can find blazes.

In fact; this will apply to most new players. What new stuff do they get exactly? A new (IMO flawed) combat mechanic and a new food type (beetroot) but not too much more. Sure; we can enchant craft end crystals but that's mostly cosmetic and doesn't really serve an actual purpose. For everything else they first need to finish the game.

Now; don't get me wrong here. I actually like the new End structures. A lot even, I think Mojang did an outstanding job with the new chorus plants and End cities. It really "fits", I can really picture Endermen living there. But even so: new players won't easily enjoy that. So I somewhat expected more out of this update.

The problem IMO is that most players will look at this from a perspective where they already "finished" the game, so they see new cool stuff which they can access. Sure. But new players do not necessarily get all of that. And then I seriously wonder about the added value of 1.9 vs. 1.8.

Boats are cool, chorus fruits idem and I also like some of the new recipes and enchantments.

But I expected more.

For years have players cried out that whenever you open up a LAN game then the host is seen as Steve by all visitors. The bug existed for years; why hasn't that been addressed? That would put more value into a new version .And there are many others like that.

And well... Other points of annoyance for me are the sounds (I consider the new door, button and chest sounds horrid, ran through a low class lowpass filter) but I also think poorly of the new witch sounds. The witch has always been a bit of a "mini creeper". You discovered she was there when you heard the sound of broken glass. And then you thought "if that had been a creeper...". But now you hear it coming from miles away. I don't like that.

So yeah... all of those things combined have made me stick with 1.8. I played 1.9 a few times but, like I said above, its no fun for me.

And so I intend to enjoy this weekend on EMC to the max. I'm deeply saddened by the way things happened and I feel for Aikar and his family, but I'd lie if I said that I wasn't a little bit happy about the ability to enjoy 1.8 just a little longer (no offense intended obviously).

Family and RL come first. Nuf Sed.

Besides, it gives me more time with 1.8.

I'm hoping that there will be a Voter's Elytra soon.

"Isolate the node and dump 'em on the other side of the router!"

I've really said all I can on this. And I feel like nobody wants to understand my view. But I'll try one last time seeing as everyone has simply torn into my view on combat and utterly ignored everything else I said.

Mobs are harder. Okay, and how is that unfair? I don't know about you, but mobs are too easy as it is. Having just gotten out of playing vanilla survival 1.9.4, I enjoyed the upped difficulty. I don't like being able to run up to a skeleton and smack him three times fast before he can even turn around. That's not fun. That's boring, and easy results.

I like that skeletons actively swerve around you, and that you have to aim precisely and take time between attacks. Fighting mobs is more engaging, and it is not exactly guaranteed you're going to win every fight. Unlike some players, I don't think in a survival game you should be able to obtain your resources with three quick smacks and therefore no trouble.

It adds difficulty. It's unbalanced, yeah. Tipped to make it more difficult. Define the word survival. It should be difficult.

As far as the other bugs go, like the arm seizure that happens when you try to eat while full, i agree. Those are rushed and should have been fixed in snapshots, honestly. No sympathy there.

I am quite neutral on the sounds, but never thought the witch being silent made sense either. But alas, I'm neutral in that department - I don't care either way.

As for the offhand with the bow and the axe... Again, I really don't have a comment because I'm going to be honest, that seems quite nitpicky. It's a fairly simple mechanic that's quite useful with some tasks. Why pick it over small nonsense like being able to fire a bow but not swing an axe? I will say I think the shield should be much lower, because that's annoying in offhand as it feels constructing but... Again, I don't particularly think about "logic" in mc. Minecraft kind of destroys logic anyway. Law of conservation of mass, anyone? (Cough cough, wood to planks).

Never even heard of that LAN thing you mentioned, but I don't play LAN anyway because nobody else here has a strong enough computer or cares. Parents think it's stupid and my brothers too young. Not saying it's unimportant, but I don't quite get the gravity of that example...

I just got out of a 1.9 survival world with a friend. We've both enjoyed it, haven't had much trouble surviving, and it's still fun to play. I really don't think it's as dramatically terrible as some players portray it to be, and I really think if people stopped playing it with the "this is a horrible update" mindset, they'd enjoy it too. But alas, I asked for opinions and I got them. I'm quite sad nobody who likes 1.9 has stepped forward, but I also don't blame them. Whoever claims to gets six quotes and notifications with arguments about how terrible it is.

I apologize for errors, I'm on my phone.

Maybe we should stick with 1.8 and ignore 1.9, or go one step further and send complaints to Mojang about how we all dislike much of their lame attempt to do an upgrade.

I saw that bug for a while... but i didnt see it in 1.7.10. Wonder what happened to that...
I solve that by running a alt to host it but i can see how it would lag.

EMC is being updated to 1.9 like the rest of the updates. There wasn't a "skip" update.

btw where do you put your opinion for the 1.9 update?

Well, to me, I'm always up for some more challenge. Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away-

Anyway, several Minecraft versions earlier, passive mobs don't run from you even if they got hit. When next MC update came out to change the passive mobs AI, some people complaining that it's harder to kill cows or pigs or chickens now. Of course, now we all got used to chase cows across the open plain with a wooden sword. I mean, sure, it's harder to slay mobs now, but it adds in the fun because the action lasts longer when you take twists and turns to avoid returning hit. On this server, I don't even kill the many mobs for sport now. So the new update doesn't really affect me negatively, and also because I usually snipe mobs if I have to. But yeah, I can see that all of us can adjust to the new update quite easily, despite some confusing features and all... Through time, however, I'm sure we'll see this as "just another major update" that we can appreciate.

Then I'll be the first. So first of all thanks for taking the time to respond, I appreciate it. I'm still going over the thread a bit but yeah.

This brings back so many bad memories Apology accepted

And you make an excellent argument here as well. Well, obviously this is all opinion based but to me the "unfair" part starts with not having everything in our arsenal available to fight them. Some things work, some don't. And I absolutely agree with you that skeletons are a bit easy. But that can be changed by using other difficulty settings (which, I have to admit, can also be relatively easily overcome).

But I can't help wonder... is the skeletons inability to turn around a result of our strength, or a lack of AI? Or maybe even lag (which often makes mobs respond slower than you).

My main gripe though is the gaming balance. I mean, if there's one thing which EMC taught me is that the game can be easily made harder while still retaining the current fighting mechanics. I normally play on difficulty 6 and often go to 7 and 8 and yeah.. That can be quite challenging at times. Especially if a mini boss decides to drop into the party and you're on difficulty 7 or up

Which then makes me wonder if they couldn't have made some things optional. So; customizable using either settings or "cheats"...

Although I do agree about the difficulty (read my comments on my EMC difficulty level) I also think it should have been customizable. Minecraft has always been about playing the game in which the player wanted to, so I can't help think that they should have linked this to a difficulty setting of some sort.

Which could even solve quite some issues. No need for an offhand bow (and thus no more inconsistency) because you can spam attack, if you want to that is. Raise the difficulty and all of a sudden you're taking your time to pick up the weapons and will have to time your attacks as well.

That is a major problem with game changes: if you change too much at once or too many core features then you risk alienating players from your game. And it gets a bit awkward, at least for me, if you're talking about a game which is still enjoyed by millions of players.

So yeah, you make good counter arguments and I can even agree with them to a good extend. I just wish it was optional.

ha ha ha, you're absolutely right: it is nit picking. No offense taken at all, no worries

Well, I'll be the first to admit that it could simply be me; sometimes I'm weary about details. Its also not really a bug or anything but more an experience. But I just can't help wonder that such a small thing can have a big influence. Being able to do a combo attack would even our odds somewhat but would also make things more realistic. Which is why I started to think in this direction: the whole update has been about making things more realistic (draw time based on weapon weight) so why leave this out?

Personally I think Minecraft is the wrong game for that kind of added reality. And I'm also a bit worried about resources all of this is going to take. The more they add the more resources things will gobble up resulting in more optional lag.

Gotcha. And this is why discussing / talking can be so much fun in my opinion. Different people, different situations and therefor different opinions. I don't think we're going to agree on some or more, but I definitely see your point as well.

Fair point indeed. Well, truth be told, I didn't start the game with that idea, I simply started playing with an open mind so to speak. And I agree: I don't call it terrible either. Terrible, really terrible, would mean that I'd start thinking about looking for other games to play as soon as most servers upgrade to 1.9. I don't intent to do that, not at all.

Though I'll probably be fighting less Momentus (still not sure yet) and will try to seek some out this weekend to make up for it

But chances are high that I'll be doing more mining and less mob fights when we updated (sometimes I simply like to go out into the wasteland, armed with my voters gear, and fight off the mob hordes). And well, I also can't dismiss another possibility: I may even come to enjoy it a little better over time.

True story: when 1.8 first came out I also disliked it a lot. Mostly because it was basically unplayable for me due to the load it had, but as a result of that I also started disliking some other stuff as well. I argued: what good are diorite and granite if all you can do is polish them? Why can't we craft stuff out of those too?


And right now that detail doesn't bother me at all. The new blocks add diversity, the ability to polish them actually helps add more diversity and yah; I like them now. Back then they were one of many annoyances which led to me disliking 1.8 entirely.

The moment when they made it more / actually playable and also got rid of some other bugs and nastyness then things really turned around. Right to a point where I think 1.8 is better than 1.7 (though the latter is probably easier to use with mods).

First of all I'd like to thank you for taking your time to respond to my message even though you already said a lot (I'm still going over the thread, got quite some catching up to do).

But also important to realize is that if some players criticize 1.9 then that doesn't necessarily mean that they hate it. Looking at myself I surely don't hate it, I simply prefer 1.8 which is all.

But there's so much more to this... I mean; different players will (probably) play the game in different ways. I spend a lot (if not most) of my time underground mining and finding stuff & exploring caves. Especially the caves, I love that. So combat is not much of a change for me, more like a (small) annoyance. And then you get to the other issue: apart from using an off hand not much has changed for me. I won't find new blocks, I don't get specific enhancements (off hand is nice of course) all I get is a little more difficult gameplay while I was actually already happy with the current one.

And that is the perfect ground to create some antipathy. At least its the main reason I still play 1.8.

But when you're more into fighting (mobs or players) then I can see how this might change. Then you do get something new to learn and work on, which changes the game completely (either in a good or bad way is not the point here).

So my take is that the real question here is what people enjoyed most in 1.8?

I don't think thats easily answered, but I think a very good indication should be seen when EMC goes 1.9. Will the masses return and will we peek at 200+ players during weekends again or will things remain as they are? Maybe worse (hope not!!): will player amounts actually drop?

We'll find out soon enough.

will mob farms break after the update?

Any one involving pressure plates will brake solely on the fact that mobs will not spawn on pressure plates in 1.9... however Aikar said the following on a thread of mine a while back:

Well I have to say that since I spend 80% of my time on EMC in town I think 1.9 is going to be great! I'm really looking forward to shields being customizable solely for cosmetic reasons. We get 2 new plants, plus new building blocks. Boats are fixed!!! So I could do a public paddle boat event/game now.

Also, I'm interested to see how the elytra mechanics work in town. Flying on smp1 anyone?

I know the reasons for me liking 1.9 aren't very technical. But from a creative stand point I think any update that helps you express yourself in new ways is a good one ♡

Lol so there's my 1 cent

I, personally, don't see why lots of people don't want 1.9, due to the fact that:

• Most broken farms can easily be fixed. (Will give details if requested)
• The lack of cooldowns can bring new strategy to pvp. Will you use a sword, which can get better pvp-related enchantments, DPS, and can hit more than one person, or will you use an axe, which gives more damage, but has a greater cooldown and can disable shields? You can use spectral arrows to track your enemies from afar, tipped arrows to attack them from a distance, and lingering potions to set up some pretty sneaky traps.
• Elytra will probably remain vanilla; they will most likely be found in and only in end cities.
• TONS of new decorations blocks, including dragon heads, end rods, end stone brick, paths, purpur blocks, and much more.
• Enchanted golden apples can no longer be crafted, meaning that less people will probably use them, also meaning that PvP events and mobarenas will be much more fair.
• Everyone can now fight the enderdragon if their heart desires.

The one thing I can understand people not liking is sharpness/BoA/smite and protection being nerfed, but I'd gladly take it if we also get all the great stuff said above.

This makes a lot more sense, I'm glad you spelled this out to me. Being able to customize it more would be good. And I can definitely agree with you.

I'll respond in full when I'm on my computer.. 2% xD

1.9, please hurry T_T

Which farms can you give details on? (so I know what to request, to not have you waste more time on writing stuff I'll probably not need )