[ Feature Discussion ] Empire Shop Management System

Discussion in 'Empire News' started by IcecreamCow, Jul 2, 2012.

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  1. Another major issue (for big shop owners like Leo, 14141, Ignora/krysyy, ect.) is something Leo mentioned earlier -- not being able to ban people (who resell and such) from your store. Could a blacklist kind of thing be possible?

    Also, Dubzy's idea is fantastic. Even with this however, I still think there is a few more things that could be added to make large shops remain successful, as it was mentioned earlier, we put hard work into them.

    I'm guessing you have a choice, whether or not you want to take part in this "web economy," am I correct?

    Maybe you could include a way to incorporate the Shop Database Catalogue into this?

    Best keep it great yet simple. Getting over the top with things like automatic material counters and things like that might make Minecraft more easy then it already is, which isn't really what we want. So am I right, keep it exciting yet simple?
    hayleycolgan likes this.
  2. I love this new idea.
    I've been absent from the material goods market for a while now, with more of a concentration on EMC's financial services industry. This could respark my interest.
    I always found it to be rather tedious to be changing around shopchests and the like, but this is something which will put everything to ease.
    In conjunction with my fixed-up excavation project, I believe I can still cement myself into a solid position in the Empire as a whole.
  3. Ok - so a question for the staff (especially Aikar).

    There have been some good ideas to make the systems more equal. These ideas strongly degrade the strength of the new system. Ideas that go against some of the reasoning that you have stated you are doing this for -

    IE: having faster access to goods - the idea was to put a wait time on it.

    Making it super user friendly - the new idea is if both systems are up and running in a way where they work together, well now everyone has to learn two more complex systems instead of one. They have to figure out when and why to use one system and when and why to use the other system. You are going to have people making shops in one place when the other was better suited for them. And then you are talking about being able to add in shopping lists from schematics. This does not sound simple to me. It feels so contradictory.

    My questions - I'll finally get to it. Sorry.

    Are you guys willing to make these sacrifices to the new system to make it work with the old? Sacrifices that are completely contradictory to (some) of the original reason you have stated for wanting to do it in the first place.

    I could see something like this working - and people would take it better - if it was strictly a compliment to the old system.
  4. Ideas: slight wait as stated by Dubzy, 1 hour is a little high if you ask me, I say 30 minz or 15 minz maybe a compromise of 23 minutes. If you have a wait system will the request post be invsible or just on HOLD and people can check it out gather stuff and then fullfill it once the wait thing has "worn off".

    Cooldown: I diagree to this as it is slowing down the online aspect. I propose a LIMIT of 5-10 orders at 1 time. It limits mass selling/ buying but doesn't extremely slow down the economy.

    I like this online thing because I am on my phone most of the day and only on MC for 2hrs because of my parents. If this system is implimented I want all of the features of the ingame online and mobile.

    That is what really excited me about this topic, we can buy/sell when not even at our computers!

    Now when people say prices are going to drop we actually have NO idea what is going to happen until it actually does, if making items more accesible for others is going to drop the price I think it might go down then rise again because people become more lazy with the new system. People will flood the market with goods prices WILL drop but eventually sellers/buyers will even out and prices will rise. Just like when Jungle trees came out saplings were 100r each now they have evened out at the normal price. This will be the opposite but will even out eventually :)
  5. I've had a think about this today since seeing it last night. I now think that the idea is worth a try, and I have a suggestion, which is more of a practical one than a conceptual one.

    How about Aikar develops the plugin, and it is introduced in Utopia for a week long trial. Only supporters would be able to access the trial (which therefore wouldn't include me anymore :'( ) and then we would have an idea of if the system will work or not. In theory, this test wouldn't give a supporter a great advantage, as the price would be relatively level (if Aikar gets the system's balance right :p ). Then, supporters could suggest improvements and hopefully see that it isn't the end of the EMC.

    This idea is still very much in the brainstorming stage, as far as I can tell, so I don't think that anybody has enough information to give a certain yes/no yet (at least not the people like me who have never played EVE/Runescape/WoW).
    xI_LIKE_A_PIGx likes this.
  6. I'm just spit-balling here:

    Would it be possible to have absolutely no change to shops, but simply have the plugin know what is in those shops, and offer them via the new web based system at X% over the currently listed price?

    I hope that is clear. If not, here is an example.

    -Joe has a shop that sells diamonds at 45r (as seen by the chest in his mall).
    -There are 200 diamonds in the chest.
    -The new plugin sees that he has 200 diamonds at 45r, so it lists them on the site at say 5% over the in person rounded to the nearest rupee.
    -So if you buy in person from Joe, you get diamonds at 45r. Buy online from Joe and the same diamonds will cost 47r.
    bloodra1n and Happyshopper like this.
  7. Now I get it thanks this means that I can build a mall and sell things at the same time brilliant!
  8. I like the idea, but I think there could be a problem linking data between the two systems. It seems like there would be some lag between them.

    I might remove the diamonds or sell them locally just before you bought them online then I would be short.

    Also, if the update were instantaneous, I could make a mistake on the sign and you could take advantage of it before I could fix it.

    It seems you would have to set aside the inventory you intend to sell online to avoid these types of problems and they probably would work best if they are two separate systems.
  9. I don't think there would be any lag since it's a DB query regardless of if it's in person or via the website.

    At the time of purchase online, there would be a DB query that ensures the amount you are ordering still exists.

    I would suggest that only signs that have been up for 60 seconds are displayed on the site. If the sign has been changed, it would be pulled from the site until it has been up for 60 seconds again.

    We need to stop thinking about the chest items as physical and the website as virtual since this is all just a (I would assume mySQL) database. There would be no need for 2 different systems IMHO. This would simply be adding an additional feature to the existing system; The option to buy online at a slightly higher rate.
    Pab10S likes this.
  10. Um as I said being mobile is not at the computer not on EMC or MC at all and making and fullfilling orders. NOT shopping at chests. You obviously didn't read my post right or trying to prove that this idea is stupid because you don't like new things. ICC is gathering ideas and making a list. Making it seperate from ingame is a main idea of this thing. It is also trying to make it more convient for the time constrained person like me. I HAVE a life. I don't like wasting my time browsing wares at YOUR Mega Malls. Then finding out its a waste of my time because your out of stock or something. Now, any shop is like this searching and more searching. The main goal of a mega mall is making it more convienent but this online thing would make it even better so I don't have to waste my time searching and do more building!
  11. You would still have to log in to put items in a chest to sell them. Using my idea as an example anyway, the only way to add things for sale to the site, is to actually put them in a chest in game. I don't think we should continue along the lines of another vault type chest in my opinion.
  12. I agree a common vault seems messy. I understand about having to put items in a chest, but where would items go if I bought them?

    Maybe there could be a Claim Center in Town where the items would be reserved for me and I would have to go there to get my purchase before I could use or resell the items.
  13. I asked this at first and from what I was told it would not be easily (if at all possible) to link them this way.
  14. It wouldn't be a common vault that links with anything else. It would have to be a virtual thing for reasons said. If you HAVE 500 cobble, it would have to be placed into a non-access to you spot after you put the sell order up so it can't be removed while someone has the ability to buy it.
  15. Also, for those in "fear" of buliding shops, please don't be. Continue as you were. We're not going to make any changes that would affect your shops from working with this, I promise. We will continue with the discussion/forming until we have an acceptable common ground.
  16. Well, buddy, I think you might have chosen the wrong game to play then. MC is obviously huge game that requires a lot of work and time to get resources and that makes it interesting - esspecially in multiplayer. If everything would be so easy as some people want it, then there is no challenge, everyone would build whatever they want, everyone would have too much rupees etc. I can understand you can have a busy life, that's good, but don't take a challenge from others because you don't have time to play a game in it's full size.
  17. not going to make them not work. but you are planning on making a system that will be far easier and convenient to use thus rendering their shops pointless.

    I understand your point. You are not forcing people to stop using shops, or having them. Ypu are thinking of leaving that system intact, but just offering an alternative.

    BUT, this is just a passive aggressive way to demolish stores. If we as humans came up with a way to instantly teleport to any location in the world, but still said that airplanes could exist and people COULD still use them. That you were just offering an alternative, airports would quickly go out of business because nobody would use them. Not because you banned them, but because you came up with something faster/easier.

    And to our points, Minecraft is a building game. Us big shop owners climbed to the top 1 rupee and 1 block at a time. Just like in the real world, the people with the know-how and dedication make it to the top. With this system, we will lose an aspect of the game that encourages huge projects.
  18. I think the point you are avoiding/missing here is that they are trying to find a method to balance this out, like a tax for the lazy, or perhaps a delivery time. That's what is being discussed right now.
    I mean, you have to admit that with a few huge malls, it's really hard for the little guy to start up.
    That being said, I completely understand your feelings on this, but I have faith that there will be enough of a delay/tax/penalty or whatever on the web side that your business will not have as huge of an impact as you must currently think.
    I mean no offense by this Leowaste, as you are a great player to have on EMC and I don't want to see this hurt your business or feelings, I just happen to agree with the idea of making it easier for the little guys to gain momentum.
    Dubzy1 and IcecreamCow like this.
  19. Exactly this.
  20. It didn't take me long to earn the 30k I thought would be enough for locking chests etc. in this game. Just a matter of a several weeks of mining and reselling. Since then the rupees have just been for keeping score. I could ditch all my rupees today and reset my residence and be back there again in a month. But then I rarely buy stuff when I'm used to going out and getting it myself so everything I've mined has accumulated.

    I understand not everyone does this, but I don't understand the "make it easy for the little guy" aspect of this. The people who do well with the shop system will play the new system like a fiddle. I think the ones who struggle now will still struggle especially in context of other players. We've got 20, 30, and 40 years olds playing with pre-teens. The more sophisticated players are going to do better in general.

    I see advantages to the type of system being discussed here. I personally find out of stock shops disappointing, for one thing. So being able to go to the website and knowing what's available for certain would be a plus.
    bloodra1n, Herbrin3 and IcecreamCow like this.
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